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Which one's right?

⁨168⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨interolivary@beehaw.org⁩ to ⁨risa@startrek.website⁩

https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/2d053cfe-1d77-4487-bf66-4cb2e04b129b.webp

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Comments

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  • GreenMario@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Stargate really did the whole “lasers for show, guns for a pro” thing.

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    • AeroLemming@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      He’s not wrong. Those things look heavy and hard to aim, and you really don’t need that much firepower in most situations.

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      • TWeaK@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        But they also had the little snake gun things which were far more practical, and also could stun.

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    • ininewcrow@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This is a thumbnail of terror, it’s meant to intimidate your enemy Image

      This is a thumbnail of war, it’s meant to kill your enemy Image

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  • bastion@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Both are right. But, the ‘gods’ already broke the non-interference pattern, and the lesser-developed species has already been impacted. So, at that point, it becomes a judgment call - will further involvement be beneficial or detrimental?

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    • Jaccident@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Don’t forget the “culture” being interfered with is the descendants of humans, forcibly removed from Earth to be slaves in a culture of violence, oppression, and fear. Not exactly the Quimbo of Shoogle VII, who just want to keep hitting people with sticks thinking it’ll cure the plague, or whatever.

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  • cpw@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Isn’t the “advanced” races doing prime directive to SGC one of the running themes in the show?

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    • JWBananas@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The very young do not always do what they are told

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    • JWBananas@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nobody:

      Oma: Do you want Anubis? Because that’s how you get Anubis!

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    • Steve@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The Tolan and the Asgard. Both of them ended up handing over all their stuff when they got fucked.

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    • interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      In a way I guess? Although weren’t eg. the Asgard mainly just pretty stingy with their tech? It’s not like they didn’t interfere in a lot of shit over the millennia, what with being revered as gods and all that

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      • cadekat@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The Nox and Tollan were way more Prime Directive than the Asgard.

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  • Loudambiance@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Wouldn't one race enslaving another already violate the Federation's Prime Directive?

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    • Zorque@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Tell that to the Bajorans.

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    • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Picard at 1:55 here suggests it doesn't necessarily:

      Pen Pals

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      • gullible@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        To me, it seemed like he was talking about localized slavery. One people originating entirely from a certain planet who come to own and abuse another people from the same planet. The ghoulies are closer to the borg or a hivemind than traditional slavers, in many ways, so examining starfleet’s response to the borg would probably yield a better understanding of their response.

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      • interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Ah, Pulaski ❤ People generally seem to really dislike her, but I think she was way more interesting as a character than Bev

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  • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Bottom dudes are all in the same boat. You think some P90’s are gonna dramatically shift the balance of power against wormy dudes in armor with crazy laser sticks?

    Nevermind that it does actually work in the show.

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    • charonn0@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You think some P90’s are gonna dramatically shift the balance of power against wormy dudes in armor with crazy laser sticks?

      ORLY? www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlCVW_ouL8

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      • JWBananas@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        We’ll just ignore the fact that the other guy in that clip was one of the wormy dudes undercover

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    • interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Jack’s whole “This is a weapon of terror: it’s made to intimidate the enemy. This is a weapon of war: it’s made to kill your enemy” speech made sense though. The goa’uld were so damn full of themselves after they’d spent way too long subjugating some poor backwards fucks whose most advanced military tech was pointy sticks, that their main weapons weren’t actually all that great for murderizing their opponents but worked wonders to keep the poor backward fucks in line. On top of that the armor that jaffa used often seemed more showboat-y than functional, and the personal shield kajiggers the system lords tended to have were honestly a bit shit in many ways, sort of like Dune’s shields but worse.

      So hurling a piece of piece of lead at supersonic speeds at a hapless wormy dude is definitely going to be pretty effective in many cases, and their return fire – if any – is going to be more spray’n’pray than anything else because lol good luck aiming with a fucking hip-fired stick, lasers or not.

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      • dejected_warp_core@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yup. The movie basically set the tone that the galaxy was ruled by decadents that were kind of unaware and feckless when it came to novel challenges.

        On top of that, SGC figured out that sending scouting parties of 3-4 people was insanely effective at shifting the balance of power across the whole flippin’ galaxy. And that was just with conventional ballistic weapons. It makes complete sense to arm counter-insurgents with what was already working, on a much bigger scale. It gives Earth and your exploratory efforts a lot of breathing room on the cheap.

        The show extrapolates from there, but does the odd thing of having to make the Goa’uld super effective at interstellar warfare, to explain the conflict with the Asgard. But by that point, the SGC has looted enough tech to build a single ship, along with a huge chunk of Robotech’s storyline, to save everybody.

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  • starlord@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Let’s not forget that these directives originate from vastly different points in “our” moral evolutionary “history,” not to mention technological capability (especially versus the rest of the galaxy) and sense of safety/security. If the SGC were founded in the same century as The Federation, would they have a similar stance?

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    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I mean it’s really not a moral thing, in stargate humanity would have been pretty fucked if they didn’t take every opportunity to bash on gods and arm people to revolt

      brings to mind a quote from Zero Punctuation: “conservative policies I admit can be a bit callous…when we’re not about to be devoured!”

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    • mrbubblesort@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It's been ages since I saw SG, but weren't the "aliens" they met mostly other humans that were forcibly relocated to other planets? So then the prime directive shouldn't really count because they're all us

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      • ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Captains have applied the PD to “lost” groups of humans on more than one occasion.

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    • interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This got me thinking who actually came up with the Prime Directive? Was it humans or the Vulcans?

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      • JWBananas@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        As they claim about many things, the Vulcans did it first.

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  • ininewcrow@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Isn’t this modern world politics in a nutshell?

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    • Thisfox@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That and “we come in peace, shoot to kill” and a few other similar statements.

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  • deegeese@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Strategic vs tactical.

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    • interolivary@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      SG-1 was arming folks to fight against the goa’uld though, so I’d claim it was also strategic?

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  • allaneast@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The prime directive is why the federation/ vulcans haven’t reached out to us. For Stargate, we just buried the gate and for whatever reason rah didn’t use a spaceship to re-enslave us.

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    • jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The Asgard where why the Goa’ul didn’t show up with a spaceship.

      Besides the prime directive wouldn’t apply to a planet that was under the rule of a starfaring civilization, so the federation would definitely step in too.

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      • JWBananas@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I think they mean in the BC years. Earth was not an Asgard protected planet at that time.

        The humans revolted and buried the gate, and the Goa’uld never returned.

        Never mind the fact that the buried gate was one that the Goa’uld brought to Earth in the first place (they either didn’t know about the one in Antarctica or couldn’t bother to retrieve it).

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      • Zorque@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The Prime Directive still applies to space-saving civilizations, its why they didn't directly interfere in the Klingon Civil war.

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  • veroxii@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Tell em Carter.

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  • someguy3@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Just go knock out Apollo and call it a day.

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