Nextcloud alternatives

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨christophski@feddit.uk⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

So far my experience with Nextcloud has been that it is a pain in the arse to install, and once it’s installed is slow as anything. Literally couldn’t run it on my pi 3b, now got it up and running pretty nicely on a NUC but it’s still not great. Have caching set up.

I have the notes app installed on my android phone and I can never used rich text editing because it gives timeout error.

This shouldn’t be this complicated. All I want is to de-Google my documents and notes, and self-host my kanban. I don’t really need the rest though it’s nice to have the options.

Do people use alternatives? Am I doing something completely wrong? I set it up using nginx which I know is not supported, but the alternative using Docker AIO didn’t allow me to use custom port easily.

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giddy@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

I seriously suggest you give Nextcloud another go, this time under Docker. Very simple to do.

Save the following in a new folder as docker-compose.yml

version: '3'

volumes:
  db:

services:

  nextcloud-app:
    image: nextcloud
    container_name: nextcloud-app
    restart: always
    volumes:
      - ./data:/var/www/html
    environment:
      - MYSQL_PASSWORD=changeme
      - MYSQL_DATABASE=nextcloud
      - MYSQL_USER=nextcloud
      - MYSQL_HOST=nextcloud-db
    ports:
      - "80:80"
    links:
      - nextcloud-db

  nextcloud-db:
    image: mariadb
    container_name: nextcloud-db
    restart: always
    command: --transaction-isolation=READ-COMMITTED --binlog-format=ROW
    volumes:
      - db:/var/lib/mysql
    environment:
      - MYSQL_ROOT_PASSWORD=changeme
      - MYSQL_PASSWORD=changeme
      - MYSQL_DATABASE=nextcloud
      - MYSQL_USER=nextcloud

run this command in the folder -

docker-compose up -d

open localhost

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iHUNTcriminals@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Is the mariadb a default part of nextcloud? I’ve seen posts saying to use a separate db so things can be backed up easier, so I was wondering if that’s how you have it set up above.

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- scorpionix@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  In this setup the DB is not part of Nextcloud. Both are running in separate services aka containers, which can be administrated independently from each other.
  
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- giddy@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  No you can use other databases. It is separate here
  
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morethanevil@lemmy.fedifriends.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Nextcloud is not easy to setup, that´s right, but it is not this complicated. Use Postgres as database, it is faster than MySQL. Install Redis as Cache and configure PHP Cache too. This will speedup the most. I use nextcloud installed directly on the host, no docker. Another small guide is here for Postgres and Apache

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scrapeus@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I suspect nextcloud having performance issues with slow Disk IO. With rootless containers I had a much worse performance than rootfull. Also using MySQL Backend instead of SQLite did speedup the performance.

Nevertheless I have the same problems with nextcloud as you stated. Pretty much not as usable as I thought.

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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s on a SATA drive, albeit hard drive not ssd and I’m using mariadb. Everybody seems to suggest I need a beefier server but as a developer myself, the functionality of the software doesn’t seem to warrant anything more powerful.
  
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  - TechAdmin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Software config optimizations help a little bit but my biggest improvement was moving the DB to SSD. Spinning disks are great for capacity but not for DB performance, random IO is a big factor for them and those drives drop in performance so fast for that type of I/O due to physically spinning media.
    
    I started out using Owncloud and later switched to Nextcloud once that fork was stable. For all my uses it has always needed beefy hardware to run well but I definitely have way more junk files in synced folders than I should & rarely clean things up.
    
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  - poVoq@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Try moving the database at least on a SSD, and enable Redis caching.
    
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  - atzanteol@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    How much memory? I think nextcloud wants around 8gb to run happily (ymmv). I’ve tried it with smaller sizes and ran into issues.
    
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sdw@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Just want to say that I’ve been there. There was a time my Nextcloud install was incredibly slow. Fortunately (or unfortunately?), it is featureful enough and widely supported that once you figure this issue out, it is a nice service to keep running.

For me, adding Redis was essential. It doesn’t really make sense to me why (nothing I do on Nextcloud is intensive or data heavy) but it has greatly improved the performance of my app.

My entire setup is a containerized Nextcloud, Nextcloud Cron, MariaDB (if I knew Postgres was an option, I would’ve chosen that), and Redis:

version: '2' services: nextcloud: container_name: nextcloud image: nextcloud:27-apache restart: unless-stopped environment: - MYSQL_PASSWORD=nextcloud - MYSQL_HOST=db - MYSQL_DATABASE=nextcloud - MYSQL_USER=nextcloud labels: - 'public-service=true' - 'traefik.enable=true' - 'traefik.http.routers.cloud.rule=Host(`nextcloud.some.domain`)' - 'traefik.http.routers.cloud.tls=true' - 'traefik.http.services.cloud.loadbalancer.server.port=80' volumes: - /some/data/dir/nextcloud/data:/var/www/html - /some/external/dir:/wew:ro nextcloud-cron: image: nextcloud:27-apache restart: unless-stopped command: [/cron.sh] environment: - MYSQL_HOST=db - MYSQL_DATABASE=nextcloud - MYSQL_USER=nextcloud - MYSQL_PASSWORD=nextcloud volumes: - /some/data/dir/nextcloud/data:/var/www/html - /some/external/dir/:/wew:ro db: image: mariadb:10.4 restart: unless-stopped environment: MYSQL_DATABASE: nextcloud MYSQL_USER: nextcloud MYSQL_ROOT_PASSWORD: nextcloud volumes: - /some/data/dir/nextcloud/db:/var/lib/mysql mysqldump: image: mariadb:10.4 depends_on: [db] # restart: never # cronjob labels: - 'cron.schedule=0 0 8 * * ?' entrypoint: [mysqldump, -h, db, -u, nextcloud, -pnextcloud, --all-databases, -r, /out/nextcloud.sql] user: root volumes: - /some/data/dir/nextcloud/db-dump:/out redis: image: redis restart: unless-stopped
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- skadden@ctrlaltelite.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  For what it’s worth you can convert the database to postgres if you want. I tried it out a few weeks ago and went flawlessly.
  
  docs.nextcloud.com/server/…/db_conversion.html
  
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  - sdw@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’ll try this next time I need to restore the DB from backup, cheers!
    
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- Lem453@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Yes, redis should be part of the standard install. Not doing it is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
  
  Also I believe postgress has better performance than mariadb so no reason not to use that if you are setting it up from scratch.
  
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  - icedterminal@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Pg has significantly better performance in a smaller self hosted environment. Notably because you’re doing a balance of reading and writing, or mostly writing since data changes regularly. For large scale operations where reading data is the primary use, MariaDB/MySQL is faster.
    
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- giddy@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  How is NC using redis? I can’t see any links from the NC container
  
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  - sdw@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I configured it in config.php directly, probably following docs.nextcloud.com/…/caching_configuration.html#i…
    
    'memcache.local' => '\\OC\\Memcache\\APCu', 'memcache.distributed' => '\\OC\\Memcache\\Redis', 'memcache.locking' => '\\OC\\Memcache\\Redis', 'redis' => array ( 'host' => 'redis', 'port' => 6379, ),
    
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- giddy@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Can I ask why the separate NC container for cron? Also, I presume the mysqldump container is for easy db backups?
  
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  - sdw@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The separate cron container made the most sense to me. Other variants “work” but imo are mostly workarounds to avoid setting up a real cronjob. Beyond this I have no real reason, nor can I vouch that is is more or less performant than others.
    
    Yes, the mysqldump container is for easier restores. It’s much easier to restore from a .sql file than a raw data dir that was copied while the DB was running ;) (speaking from experience…)
    
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Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
For speed Seafile absolutely smokes Nextcloud.

If you create an account they’ll give a pro license (limited to 3 users) for free. Or you can stick with the always free community edition which works great too.

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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I use Syncthing for my files, I don’t need a Web ui so it’s great and handles huge directories easily.
  
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Dave@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I have nextcloud running on docker on a Raspberry Pi 4 and I’d say the performance is comparable to Onedrive web interface. If you’re getting timeouts then something must be wrong with the setup, not the machine it’s running on. Using Postgres instead of MySQL or using an SSD instead of HDD is not going to help your issue.

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finn_der_mensch@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Nginx is supported and a good choice. What database are you using? I’d recommend MariaDB.

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- morethanevil@lemmy.fedifriends.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Nginx alone will not speed up Nextcloud. Use Postgres instead of MySQL and configure Redis and PHP Cache. This will speed up most. And Nginx is not officially support, see here
  
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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The documentation says nginx is not officially supported: docs.nextcloud.com/server/19/…/nginx.html
  
  I am using mariadb
  
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  - finn_der_mensch@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Ah right, sorry; the company doesn’t support it directly but the docs provide an example. To me as tinkerer that was solid enough 😂😅
    
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voidboi@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I have had issues with nextcloud breaking randomly every time ive tried it. The thing I wanted the most was the caldav/webdav to integrate with Gnome and Davx5 (and finally kill google calender), and to get that I tried Owncloud instead. The UI leaves a lot to be desired but if you only use the *dav functionality it works like a charm. It also has a mobile app for syncing and several extensions but I havent delved into them.

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- dubba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  If you only need DAV functionality, Radicale provides just that. Can be deployed as a container and works flawlessly with DAVx5.
  
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redcalcium@lemmy.institute ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I’m my experience, nextcloud is quite I/O bound. The performance of your storage device will greatly affect nextcloud performance. But if you’re already using SSD and the performance still bad, maybe there are other issues with your setup.

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- agressivelyPassive@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  For me, speed isn’t the only issue. Everything about nc seems to be cobbled together in the most inconvenient way possible. Updates have always been hit or miss for me - and if you choose to use dockerized versions, you might as well shoot yourself, everything is very slow, even as the only use having it running on a quite capable machine it feels sluggish (not slow, but uncomfortably delayed).
  
  It’s a glorified Dropbox clone, why do I need anything more than a rpi1 for that?
  
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  - redcalcium@lemmy.institute ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It’s a PHP app inherited from owncloud so at some point you’ll just have to accept it won’t be as performant as apps written in compiled languages. But this weakness is actually a strength too, being a php app makes extending its functionality very easy, resulting in a lot of community-developed plugins. Basically a trade-off between performance and features + community plugins availability. If you value performance more and don’t need anything beyond file sharing feature, there are plenty of other options right now.
    
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Decronym@lemmy.decronym.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:

Fewer Letters More Letters

HTTP Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web

SATA Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage

nginx Popular HTTP server

[Thread #125 for this sub, first seen 10th Sep 2023, 09:45] [FAQ] [Full list] [Contact] [Source code]

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moist_towelettes@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Pydio and Seafile are alternatives I’ve tried. Pydio was pretty fast too. I agree with you on Nextcloud, I want to like it but I inevitably start having issues and it’s slow even after tuning. It just tries to do too much and shouldn’t be that complex to spin up a file server.

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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  To be honest I’m not interested in the file sharing side of nextcloud as I use Syncthing, I’m more interested in the utilities (eg notes, kanban) and the office capabilities. I want to replace gsuite
  
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cichy1173@szmer.info ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Nextcloud is hard to install in manual way (even sometimes with Docker). As far I know, both Snap and Yunohost versions of Nextcloud are solid. I used Snap version on the cheapest Linode VPS, and it worked fine, especially when I doubled the SWAP to 1 GB. Now I use Yunohost version and I have only good time with it. It is super stable, fast and reliable. I used Nextcloud_ynh on HP 800 Mini G3 with i5-6500t and now on Asrock Mini PC with Ryzen 7 5700g. It is working just great.

If you don’t want to use Nextcloud, you ca install Vikunja for kanban and tasks. For notes Hedgedoc can be great.

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NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I guess you are doing something very wrong if you have such performance trouble all the time.

The Pi (up to 4) is known for bad disk I/O. Look into this area first.

I am running my nc on a weak old low power deskop CPU (and with real SATA harddisks) and only when I ask for long running jobs (like, create the previews and icons for 200 new photos) I can watch any slow responses at all.

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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I’m not using a Pi, I’m using a j4125 based mini computer, which has made a big difference but the performance just still is not good enough.
  
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  - giddy@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That is better than my NUC and I have no performance issues
    
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mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I run Nextcloud, its responsive and has all my stuff in it. Notes, Calendar, Contacts, Kanboard, Photos, RSS reader, others. You do need look at the setup, how many PHP processes are you running, how much memory does MySQL use.

My current setup is a a PHP vm, 6 cores and 8GB of memory and a MySQL vm that is 2 cores and 8GB memory. But I work for a SaaS provider and thats now we carve up our systems, a vm/instance for 1 job.

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- NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  how many PHP processes
  
  Curious: where do I set this number?
  
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  - mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The way I sorted it was to run nextcloud for a week, then run ps aux on the host and see what the memory use of a php process is. The 5th column is the memory use of a process, divide the number into the amount of memory you want PHP to use. The number from ps is bytes, so you will need to use some maths to make it all fit
    
    in Debian running PHP-FPM in /etc/php/{{ php_version }}/fpm/pool.d/www.conf edit or add the below lines with the settings you need
    
    pm = dynamic pm.max_children = 8 pm.start_servers = 2 pm.min_spare_servers = 2 pm.max_spare_servers = 3
    
    Also MySQL has some options you can change to use more or less memory, this handy tool MySQLTuner is your best way to get the options
    
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vegetaaaaaaa@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Problem with updating Nextcloud on TrueNAS - Lemmy.world

Nextcloud on VM or Docker? Best set-up for proper backups? - Lemmy.world
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Qu4ndo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Go for the AllinOne (AIO) Installation! Had huge performance issues first (Nextcloudpi Docker & normal Nextcloud Docker) and none with the current install.

You get a self servicing (updates/installation/scaling/etc.) docker install with backups and administration portal.

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- christophski@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  From the instructions it looked like anything other than the default ports is not supported in AIO. I want to host other sites on this server without much complication.
  
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  - hyperspace@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    So use a reverse proxy like Nginx Proxy Manager
    
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CaptObvious@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It runs quite nicely on my Pi 3 with Apache and no Docker. I only use cloud storage, but the rest seems to work fine if needed. Maybe switching to a supported configuration would help?

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ptman@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
cryptpad si quite good

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Aux@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Synology is the answer.

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simon574@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
For Kanban I use wekan, because it has more features. Nextcloud I host using snap, which I cannot 100% recommend because it sometimes has troubles upgrading to the latest version. Still, for me it causes less trouble than a manual install.

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aion@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I dont know about kanban but the other stuff can be achieved via webdav. All major webservers can do that or you just use filebrowser.org (a selfhosted webdav server with built-in user management).

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Fewer Letters	More Letters
HTTP	Hypertext Transfer Protocol, the Web
SATA	Serial AT Attachment interface for mass storage
nginx	Popular HTTP server