Submitted 3 weeks ago by No1@aussie.zone to australia@aussie.zone
With the ban going into effect tomorrow, I thought it might be helpful to allow people to share their experiences about the teen social media ban
Note: For the Aussie Zone lemmy requirements, see here. Please use that thread for an Aussie Zone specific discussions or questions.
Good luck, everyone!
This morning I have opened: Lemmy (aussie.zone), Discord, WhatsApp, Bluesky, Messenger, Facebook, Tumblr, YouTube.
None of them have asked me to verify my age, neither the ones that said they would nor the ones explicitly exempt nor the ones about which we know nothing.
My Facebook and Google accounts are probably old enough that they don’t need to verify. All the other accounts are too young for that to work.
Bluesky asked me to enter my date of birth, but did not require anything to substantiate the date I entered.
I’m a Millennial, so my age isn’t an issue. But I don’t want to give anything identifying to any platform. (I like the approach aussie.zone is taking.) So I am relieved that thus far my accounts are unaffected.
But I’m also feeling a healthy dose of “where’s the boogeyman we were promised?” and wondering when the shoe is going to drop.
Yep looks like many sites haven’t actually implemented the age verification at all.
afr.com/…/we-tried-to-break-australia-s-social-me…
Social media platforms are still allowing users who declare themselves to be under 16 to sign up for new accounts, despite Australia’s world-first social media ban coming into effect today.
…
testing by The Australian Financial Review found Meta platforms Facebook, Instagram and Threads, as well as Snapchat, TikTok and X were the only platforms to prohibit users signing up if they listed their age as under 16. As of 6am AEDT, the Financial Review created accounts on video streaming platforms Kick and Twitch despite listing the user age as below 16. Several hours after establishing the account, Kick prompted the user to verify their age, but the app remains fully accessible at this stage without verification.
Likewise, online forum Reddit – which said it would comply with law but is preparing a potential legal challenge to the new regulations – did not require users to input their age at all while setting up an account, with adult “18+ content” on the platform filtered using a toggle in the app’s settings without any age verification. On YouTube, owned by Google parent Alphabet, users can set up an account while listing their age as under 16 and comment and watch videos. Viewers can watch YouTube and TikTok without logging on, but even the under-16 account created by the Financial Review was able to easily access explicit content. While Facebook, Instagram and Threads, Snapchat, TikTok and X prevented people under 16 from signing up, all 10 social platforms let the Financial Review create accounts that listed an age of 18 without any further age verification.
Sounds like Aussie.zone is the largest platform that has any sort of verification. Thankyou Molly@Aussie.zone
Discord will if you try to open a channel that’s been marked age restricted. Though maybe if you have a newer account they had already done age verification on signup
Agree. It’s frustrating.
How do we know if they’ve done their verification and we have ‘passed’?
If it were me, I’d be doing phased rollouts. You don’t want to piss off everyone all at once. You just drip feed it out.
If it were me, I’d be doing phased rollouts. You don’t want to piss off everyone all at once. You just drip feed it out.
Reasonable, though the law requires it be in full force as of today. If they wanted to phase it in, they should have started that a month or more ago.
And besides, you’d think the very first phase would be…banning new under-age signups. Which they don’t even seem to have done.
aussie.zone, forums.whirlpool.net.au, youtube and reddit
unfortunately no replacement for youtube and not enough content on fedi to replace reddit… yet
unfortunately no replacement for youtube
At worst, YouTube will still be browsable without an account. So you’ll only miss out on videos with more adult content.
my only concern is being able to delete my account if login gets blocked by an ID check
No.
All your bases data belong to us
It’s so frustrating seeing the government fiddling in the margins to grab headlines rather than, doing something constructive. This is going to devolve into a game of whack-a-mole trying to make it look like it is achieving something other than what it is (normalising the idea of having to dox yourself to access the internet). Meanwhile I have just lost all the passive ability to monitor what my teens watch on YouTube, and the easy ability to check in on their conversations on Snapchat. They have thrown my kids out into the wild west of barely moderated YouTube and dubious chat apps.
If they had implemented strong laws around algorithmic outputs, human moderation, and online harassment then we would have been applauding them for holding the social media companies to account. Instead what they have done is laid another part of the foundation of a surveillance state.
In essence the governments desire to be seen to be doing something is dovetailing neatly with the shit heads that want everything we do online to be monitored, recorded and as a byproduct more heavily monetised.
Also since they are doing this to protect the children, is there a number of children they are willing to sacrifice to achieve their goals. How many marginalised kids have to self harm before they start to ask the question “Are we the baddies?” We already know that social media has had Perverse Incentives at play that have shaped it, so while it sounds hyperbolic I don’t imagine it’s beyond the pale that the LGBTQI+ kid who lives in a rural area with 0 local support is going to be affected by their online support networks disappearing. The kid suffering from domestic violence suddenly becomes voiceless and can’t work out who they trust enough to reach out to. The bullying goes to the all new special app all the kids on the playground are using that is hosted out of another country that doesn’t give a shit about Australian laws and becomes impossible to take down as we have just taught our kids to work around the tissue paper blocks the government keeps relying on.
On top of all this, we don’t have comprehensive data privacy laws, and while the government says it will levy massive fines against companies that don’t take reasonable steps to secure our data, the reality is that they will not, and if they tried to what’s to stop the companies deciding that Australia is not an economically sound country to operate in and just up stumps and leave rather than paying the $85,000,000 fine?
This is all just the surface level thoughts I have of this debacle.
I mean this completely sincerely. Take this entire comment and send it in a letter (a physical letter) to your MP. Especially if they’re Labor or one of the independents who voted for the bill. (Those who voted against it, like the Greens and most independents, are already on board with you, and the LNP are just beyond saving. But enough pressure might be able to convince Labor to do better.) And encourage all the parents you know to do similar.
Comment, respectfully, on their Facebook. Make sure everyone knows that even if the goals behind this might be good, the thing they’ve actually delivered is not.
My MP started off giving this topic a simple once over and agreed with it. Then listened to a bunch of constituents, experts and just the rhetoric from other politicians. He has since changed his stance on it. Also he happens to be an Independent.
Strange how much of the inequity in our current system is related to people who are motivated to vote along party lines instead of listening to the people who put them in their position isn’t it?
I find it hilarious that the only people who can’t talk about this online right now are also the only ones directly affected by it.
Well the best part of all of this is it will incentivize youth to learn how to get assertive doing this stuff. I have been so disappointed by my teenage Canadian daughter not even being willing to use a web browser, but if you took aware her Roblox unless she could hack around the government requirements she’d find a way. Oh who am I kidding my wife would make me do it for her.
Please do not mention workarounds here
Honestly, considering the law actually specifically says the sites are supposed to take into account these workarounds, I think discussing them should be fair game. If nothing else, in the name of transparency and of calling out uncompliant sites.
OK, I shall remove that part of the topic 👍
Heck, I can’t find anything in the legislation or the legislative instrument that prohibits explicitly assisting children in circumventing the restriction. And I even heard one interview yesterday where they pretty specifically said “yeah, some kids will get around it. They won’t get in legal trouble for it. Only the platforms themselves can get in trouble if it’s too easy to get around”.
Sounds like the ban didn’t work very well !
Here are some other comments from parents who contacted the ABC as part of an audience call-out looking at the immediate impacts of the social media ban:
“My son opened TikTok this morning and received this message: ‘The social media ban has come into effect. Your age is estimated to be 18 years old.’ He is 11.” — David, Vic
“My 13-year-old son has passed the age verification face scan by hiding his teeth and scrunching up his face. It guessed his age as 30+. In real life he passes for a 10-year-old.” — Matt, Qld
“My son is almost 16 and has been kicked off Snapchat already on the 9th December but my daughter who is 14 still hasn’t been asked to verify her age on the app. We know multiple children who are 13 who passed the Face ID scan.” — Melissa, WA
“My 13-year-old daughter still has access to all her social media accounts this morning, and she verified her age via facial scanning. I am hoping that they are still working their way through and she will be booted off soon. If not then it’s a fail for us.” — Alison, NSW
“I am under the age of 16 and have not been banned on any platform. Many of my friends in my grade are also under 16 and not one of them has been banned yet.” — Julius, Qld
Random thought.
I’m aware that COPPA applies to American kids (and specifically kids under 13) but Google and YouTube just got in huge trouble for collecting kids data… and now to prevent kids accessing them the government has created a situation where they’re again collecting biometric data from minors.
And I have no idea whether or not it’s stored, but the kids are passing as not being minors so that data may not be treated accordingly.
Bruh.
I opened up twitch today. There’s a banner saying they will start deactivating accounts after Jan 9.
Wow I wish the media would remember that a strong independent media that is willing to hold the government to account actually makes for a stronger democracy.
Somehow Jonathon Haidt is being discussed as the ultimate authority on this topic because he wrote a book that some pollies read. Not seeing Candice Odgers being brought up, just to grab a name at random. Her take seems a bit more nuanced but we can’t do nuance these days.
And meanwhile the truly catastrophic damage is already being done, how many young people handed over their biometric data today? Yes there is a lot of noise in that data, but the politicians are categorically stating that the systems will improve over time, if the scope of data collection is solely for the purpose of performing verification and no data is being retained… How exactly are these systems expecting to improve over time… And the mask is off, “Won’t somebody think of the kids!!!” Is actually, “Won’t somebody provide categorised biometric data to the scumbag AI companies?”.
Citizens need to start demanding that the eSafety Commissioner investigate these AI companies for misappropriation of data starting today, if the demands are concerted and consistent enough maybe we can keep the government tied up investigating these companies and help them avoid shooting any more toes off in the process.
Yeah, seeing that conservative hack Haidt being invoked undermines the whole premise.
I’ve only looked Facebook, Discord, and YouTube so far. No general age gating, but today is the first day I’ve been asked for age verification by Discord to view NSFW channels. Frustrating, because the only NSFW channel I actually ever look at is for some very slightly memes in a server that I’m a mod of. Hard to mod if they’re gating me.
I suspect they’ve tagged my account, so a VPN won’t work. But I wonder if pointing my camera at some fake old people will work.
Probably, unless they found a way to fix it. Kids in the UK already did that by using some mode in Death Stranding and another game to make the character open his mouth and make the required expressions on camera.
I hate ai but you could probably pull some fake old geezer off google and there might be a few with different faces.
I won’t be bothering though. I’m tired. Think I’ll just drop my email or number to a handful of people still on the platforms and if they don’t keep in touch then that’s that.
My reliance on social media has been externally forced and using it has started to aggressively suck. Lemmy may be the one platform I bother to try to keep.
I wonder if the instructions are consistent enough that someone could make a bespoke video on YouTube that opens its mouth at the right time.
tbh it looks like most of these platforms are going to be predominantly relying on historical analysis and account age, so most people probably won’t ever need to provide any evidence. If your Facebook account is 10+ years old, has photos of you on it already, and you’ve shared content including boring adult subjects like politics and professional sports, they’ll probably already assume you’re an adult.
I’ve definitely been getting increasingly frustrated at Facebook’s algorithm though. At the very least I am seriously considering installing an extension that hides the entire News Feed, so I only see stuff that I specifically seek out, which will likely only be on a handful of pages I actually care about.
I’ll be hanging out without complying until I get banned fyi.
Good idea for a post!
I’m very interested to see what if anything happens to my accounts. My Reddit is 13, my Facebook probably 16 or 17, my YouTube could probably vote.
My Twitch account is quite young…I may have first created it during the pandemic, and I certainly only first started using it with any regularity then. But I do mostly watch streams of games old enough that the average professional is in their late 20s.
I have Xitter and Snapchat accounts, but haven’t used them in years and won’t try logging in just to see how this affects them.
I’ve never used Threads, TikTok, Kick, or Instagram, to round out the list of platforms specifically mentioned by eSafety.
Haha! I went through the ABC list from the link above as well!
The other one I’m worried about is Github 🥹 . It’s an invaluable source, and even if I don’t contribute source, I like to help with answers to issues where I can, and if there’s issues, I like to point those out as well.
If github tries to check me, i’ll go right back to using it without an account
LinkedIn has been specifically mentioned as exempt. I can only assume GitHub would be the same.
StackExchange might be a more interesting case though. And the broader StackOverflow network.
Also regretting, because I can’t find a ‘disable notification’ lol
On the bright side, hopefully the social media giants cop some big fines.
This is a stupid law that won’t work of course. Only the most delusional of parents with control issues support this.
However. This also might be unintentionally the most important antitrust legislation in a generation. For that, I am grateful.
Please explain the antitrust part?
Kids under 16 are likely to explore alternatives and get vendor-locked to them instead of Meta et Al. products.
Not that vendor lock in is good but maybe this will create more awareness that the web is bigger than a handful of websites.
My 90’s heart wishes for a return to the old web, where there was much more decentralisation
Have any adults had trouble verifying ?
Please do not mention workarounds here
Why not? The eSafety commission offers online tutorials on workarounds.
You are sadly mistaken
No they won’t be.
Firstly it is technically impossible. Even China cannot do it.
Secondly, businesses need them for WFH.
Thirdly, the government is not implementing a block themselves. They are trying to pass on the unreasonable onus onto website owners.
melbaboutown@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
I’m a disabled adult that lives in an unsafe area, relying a lot on the internet for entertainment and a connection to the world.
I also don’t fancy the risk of identity theft or being doxxed. And even if I wasn’t in a position to be chronically online, these measures set a concerning precedent for online privacy and control of information that is much larger than our individual screen time.
YouTube: It will be locking me out of my YouTube account so I’ll lose all my saved playlists, can’t block harmful channels or recommendations (though the algorithms still function to serve them), could not choose to go premium to stop the alcohol and gambling ads, and I can’t watch certain favourite songs or my mates gaming channel.
I am still able to find plenty of uncensored material that’s not suitable for children while signed out though. So that’s something /s
Facebook: There are people I’d like to casually keep in touch with that are more likely to use the platform than text or email. Guess I kiss acquaintances goodbye? There are also disability support groups on there.
Twitch: Can’t watch a friend’s content or use the platform. This better not affect my Minecraft.
Reddit: This will prevent the choice of going back and talking to our Redditor buds who didn’t migrate over to Lemmy. (The Melbourne Daily Discussion Thread began on Reddit and before the exodus everyone had been internet friends for a long time.)
Also if I want to go and read only I may be prevented without an account. I also didn’t get it together in time to back up my comments in order to delete my account, so I may not get to.
TikTok: Hate the platform and avoid it as much as possible but increasingly everything is being put on it.
Everything else: I don’t use it but resent being told that I can’t unless I submit to an unreasonable invasion of privacy.
More broadly the UK version of this has shut down a number of small forums. So they’re gone. And there is still the potential for Australia or other countries to expand the targeted sites in future and do the same. Deciding on what they want to do and who can afford to fight or comply.
I hope this is an embarrassing fail. But if this precedent is set and the scope is allowed to creep there is the possibility that there won’t be independent alternatives to the large tech companies and they will be empowered to behave worse.
Also did I mention the control of information flow and potential for censorship?
Zagorath@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
Tbh once they started cracking down on adblockers I switched to uBlock Origin and haven’t had any problems since. Which is funny, because I previously used Adblock Plus specifically because I liked their “acceptable ads standard”, where they would let through ads that are designed unobtrusively. UBO doesn’t support this. So now instead of less terrible ads getting through, YouTube’s actions have caused me to get rid of all ads, entirely. Way to shoot yourselves in the foot there, guys.
I have never had a TikTok account. Occasionally people send links, and those work just fine in the web browser on a computer. On mobile they try to force you to download the app though.
I believe data dumps of Reddit are available from third parties which would help you with this, if you want.
vas@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
FYI, they work even better with
yt-dlp ‘YOUR_URL’It’s not a silver bullet as yt-dlp also relies on people’s hard work, so generally I’m absolutely not on the platform either. Downloading from TikTok only happens once in half a year maybe.
melbaboutown@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
I just lazily switched to Brave because phone and it stopped the ads.
I mostly wanted to back up a copy of my comments for myself and then wipe them off Reddit, but the process of installing the GitHub tool to grab my posts didn’t quite work and I was very tired.
krooklochurm@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Great insight into how my country instituting this would not effect me at all.
All those services are fucking garbage. Maybe there’s better things to do online than eat shit?
melbaboutown@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago