Is it better to leave a country, or stay behind to fight for it? And what about the ethics of fleeing instead of staying behind?

Comments

• Fondots@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I don’t think there’s any easy answer here.

  If you stay, are you able and willing to fight and to what degree under which circumstances? What do you have to offer? Will you be more of a liability than an asset? How do you weigh your personal safety and wellbeing or those of your family and friends against the country or world? What do your prospects look like in whatever country you choose to flee to?

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• cobysev@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This depends on a lot of factors. If you’re part of a targeted demographic due to race, gender, religion, etc., then it might be safer to flee before you draw attention to yourself.

  If you’re not a targeted demographic, then it might be best to stick around and stand up for your fellow citizens. But this could also lump you in with the targeted demographic and might eventually lead to your own persecution, so it’s a risky choice.

  Either way, I still advocate for standing up to any oppression or persecution going on in your home country. No one should ever lose their home to dictators and/or fascists.

  This is actually how a lot of states get divided politically. People see a place as a “red state” or a “blue state” and decide to either avoid them or move away if their political ideology doesn’t line up. But that just further entrenches the area into a political leaning. By sticking around and advocating for human rights and better community and respect, you can help prevent the splitting of communities and stop divisive concepts like fascism from forming.

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  • ObtuseDoorFrame@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m autistic and trying to figure out if autism is an at-risk minority group. It doesn’t help that I was extremely vocal on Reddit about how much I hate Trump and Musk. I deleted my account, but Reddit is now a fascist platform and would likely turn over my posts and email address to this administration without a second thought.

    I’m not sure what to do. I’m not sure if I could even leave at all, with my debilitating anxiety and trauma.

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    • dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      White. Male. Able bodied. Neurotypical. Christian (Catholics need not apply). Straight. Republican.

      If you or someone you know doesn’t fit each one of those, then they are at risk of persecution in the US.

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• Panamalt@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Imagine someone keeps breaking into your house and shitting on your pillow. Do you move out and find a new house, or do you grab a baseball bat and beat the shit bandits ass?

  Both are valid options with positive and negative consequences. Which path we choose is largely determined by the value we personally place on our things and spaces. We tend to value our homes and families more, so it’s easier to choose the bat. But, it’s the exact same choice when your country goes sideways (or any difficult decision, really).

  Ask yourself; How valuable is the country, to you? How valuable is your role in its society, to you? How valuable is it that you stand up for your beliefs, to you? If you place no value on your country, then move on and feel good about taking care of yourself. If you value your country a lot, then stand and fight to the end. No one on the internet can answer these questions for you, and there is no right or wrong choice unless you decide there is.

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  • acchariya@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If it’s the police that keep breaking in and shitting on your pillow it would be best to move to a different town.

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    • Panamalt@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Makes no difference if the little shit is a pig or a bastard, if something you value and care about is threatened, fucking fight for it. When they have bigger guns than you, all that means is its time to get creative.

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• SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The US is a massive place. Yes the federal govt can suck but state and local governments are where you see the real day to day effects like roads, local businesses, utilities and parks.

  Sit in on a meeting (a lot of stuff is streamed thanks to covid). Get to know the people in your area and what they stand for. If you want make your voice heard however you choose and give them some perspective on how an upcoming decision effects you. You can vote wisely and build a community with them from the bottom up.

  You can have a surprising level of influence just by reminding people that voters exist and care enough to give input now and then.

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• atomicpeach@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It’s a very valid question and I think it comes down to an individual’s situation and circumstances. Not many can afford to actually leave or have family, friends, other ties to their home that they cannot emotionally afford to leave. Others struggle in how they can support efforts to fight for their rights or simply don’t have the physical or emotional reserves to make such a fight. I think the only truly ethically irresponsible answer would be to do the opposite that you are able and willing to do. I could never judge someone for leaving or for staying; it’s not really a mark of their character.

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• TheAlbatross@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think one has to decide if their country is worth fighting for or not.

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  • SuperNovaStar@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think it is. Not in a nationalistic sense - we’ve done a lot of harms in the world. Maybe more harm than good, even. But there’s still a lot worth saving here. (USA)

    If you just walk around and talk to people on the street, we’re still one of the most progressive people around, despite everything. The US is a melting pot, a country of immigrants, and therefore a fierce battleground for ideas and ideologies. Right now the fascists are in power, but that doesn’t make them the majority.

    I really do think that if we get past this, we’ve got the “bones” to create something really great.

    And that doesn’t even include American culture. Sure, there’s things I don’t like, but there are some really good parts, too.

    We’re loud. Gregarious. We’ll strike up conversations with complete strangers. Most Americans are culturally curious, too - we like to try foods from other places, we’re fond of foreign movies and media, and we have a weird fascination with people who speak other languages (even though most of us only speak English).

    Many of us see ourselves as citizens of the world, not just our own country. We like the idea of the US being a “global superhero” standing up for democracy and human rights. I know that’s mostly propaganda, and the real history of US intervention is more about maintaining global capitalism. But it doesn’t have to be that way. We could actually help the UN, defend Ukraine, defend Palestine, push for peace. The cultural groundwork is already there, we just need a more democratic system so that the will of the people is actually followed.

    If you look at US history, you’ll see a lot of bad. That’s the nature of the two party system. But we have had some really good times, too. We have had leaders like John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, and Jimmy Carter who have done a lot of good. And that’s just presidents, we’ve also had activists and leaders fighting for what’s right throughout our whole history.

    They didn’t spring up from nowhere. Those people have always been here, and they’re just as “American” as the bad ones. In a sense there are two "America"s. There always have been. And, as in every generation, it’s worth fighting for.

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    • rayyy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.” - Carl Schurz:

      It’s our civic duty to make our country better.

      Some people may need to move because because they aren’t safe here right now.

      Some people need to be removed, one way or another.

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    • QuarterSwede@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m actually inspired. We need more of this!

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    • Wahots@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Well said!

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    • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m not American but I totally agree with you. You guys might be at a low point right now but yours is still a country to be proud of. Heck, I’m proud of your country for some things.

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  • Num10ck@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    a place worth dying for would he nice

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• cattywampas@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Stay and fight for it. Because what happens if and when shit goes south wherever your new home is? Just keep running?

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  • IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well, apparantly, Lemmy is telling people to immediately flee the US.

    So like, I’m just wondering. What happens when every person left-of-center leaves? Do we just leave a bunch of nazis with the entire nuclear arsenal of the US?

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    • SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      leave a bunch of nazis with the entire nuclear arsenal of the US?

      This

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    • silverlose@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Lemmy is telling people to flee the US? What did I miss?

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• Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I would need more to defend than just a Flag or Land area. I’m not killing myself or others for some line on a map.

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  • Oisteink@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Slava Ukrajini

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  • Dagwood222@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If the United States goes down, you’ll have a corporate oligarchy with the most powerful military in world history.

    Just saying.

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    • Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If the United States goes down it’ll also trigger a global economic disaster as well.

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    • IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Oh yea, this time, there wouldn’t be a powerful country to liberate us. 😖

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