Can one still claim that the USA is a liberal democracy? Where do you draw the line?
The land of the free enslaved it’s inhabitants.
Has the USA turned into an oligarchy?
Submitted 5 days ago by sith@lemmy.zip to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
Comments
LordWiggle@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Sunshine@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
That was the case since the 80s
Treczoks@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Looks like you are a few years behind events.
Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
The people saying “always has been” have really short memories or’ve forgotten about the Roosevelt administrations.
There is a decent argument to be made that the USA is a de-facto oligarchy. However, it’s a de-jure liberal democracy and Constitutional Republic for the time being.
exploitedamerican@lemm.ee 4 days ago
Fdr was the exception to the rule. He pushed against the fascist oligarchs to prevent violent uprising of the proletariat.
Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
“To prevent violent uprising of the proletariat” are you actively trying to phrase it to make it sound like even when someone does something good it was actually bad?
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
if money = power then liberal (democracy) = oligarchy
tht@social.pwned.page 3 days ago
Yes, it has
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 days ago
It’s at least a Soft Oligarchy yes. There’s no legally or extra legally enforced class system. If you can make it into the upper classes, by guile, luck, or sheer bastardry they’ll accept you and let you run some things, maybe even political offices. See J.D. Vance, a millennial from Appalachia who has risen to the Vice Presidency via guile and sheer bastardry.
But it’s a Soft Oligarchy because opportunities are far from equal. Before anyone starts screeching, equality of outcome isn’t an expectation here, merely equality of opportunity. In the large majority of cases your zip code can predict your future socioeconomic level. And not because rural areas are cheaper, that just means middle and upper class start at lower numbers there. Those classes are still not being obtained. Along with this are several studies over the last couple decades telling us that socioeconomic mobility is all but dead, both individually, and more recently, intergenerational mobility.
So while you aren’t going to be killed or imprisoned for earning too much or asking for stuff above your station, it is very rare to access those levels without being born to them. Thus the “soft” in Soft Oligarchy.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
it’s very close to turning into one.
It’s not quite there, but trump is definitely not one to shy away from it, so it mostly depends on who he appoints and interacts with. And how corrupt he will be.
Blaze@sopuli.xyz 4 days ago
Feel free to crosspost to !AskUSA@discuss.online
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 days ago
Sure you can. Until January 6th.
dullbananas@lemmy.ca 4 days ago
The closest thing we have to democracy is our ability to begin democracy by fighting against first-past-the-post voting systems
geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 3 days ago
The government controls all media. If they do not control one and it get big, it gets ‘regulated’ like TikTok or even banned. The general public will vote for the oligarchy as instructed.
Coreidan@lemmy.world 5 days ago
A while ago
over_clox@lemmy.world 5 days ago
I’m no fool, they never convinced me of that lie.
50 is divided, not united…
recreationalcatheter@lemm.ee 4 days ago
How does one unite that which is already whole?
over_clox@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Ever tried having health insurance from a particular provider in one state, and having a health issue in another state?
You Luigi it.
There ain’t a goddamn thing united about these fucking states, except they let you temporarily cross the borders for a few days or couple weeks or so. God forbid you have any issues out of your registered home state though, you’re basically fucked.
7fb2adfb45bafcc01c80@lemmy.world 4 days ago
No, we will never be an oligarchy. A plutocracy, yes, but I think money is the deciding factor here.
Furbag@lemmy.world 4 days ago
A Plutocracy is merely an Oligarchy by virtue of wealth. It’s not as if you or I could ever earn enough money legitimately to move up to the ruling class. That makes it functionality indistinguishable from an Oligarchy that is hand picked by arbitrary factors.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 days ago
I mean, no country truely had 10/10 democracy.
The US literally started out from people in chains, but eventually free the enslaved people (with the prison exemption), then black men could vote, then women.
Segregation was legal, then it it was outlawed.
Civil Right Act was passed
The level of racism began to deminish, not completely gone, but deminishing
I would say the US was at 1/10 democracy at the beginning, it was at 5/10 before trump, then it was at 4/10 right after Jan-6, now its at 4.25/10 (because some judicial appointments were made by biden as a counterbalance to republican judges).
Is it a oligarchy. Not really. I would say it’s a democracy in which rich people have an advantage in money and influence. So I guess you could call it a semi-oligarchy. Because in a real oligarchy, the media would’ve been censored, and you wouldn’t be seeing my comment, you wouldn’t be able to ask such question, there’d be no free(ish) internet access. There’s be no somewhat protected union activity. There’s be no somewhat protected protests. There are often violations to those rights, but back then, it was way worse.
We never really had a true 10/10 democracy, but as time goes on, it tends to trend toward becoming more democratic. (We’ll see what happens with Project 2025. Could be just another period of recession as it has happened many times throughout US history, or it could be Weimar 1933, only time will tell)
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 days ago
I’m here hoping to any god that is watching that Project 2025 becomes something like a dog catching the car situation. The Republicans are the dogs and now they are arguing amongst themselves what to do with the car.
I’m planning as if Project 2025 goes forward. If civil war is in my lifetime, the shots will start with the alt-right.
There is a quote that’s been ringing through my head ever since the CEO murder: “Those who make peaceful reform impossible make violent revolution inevitable.”
The Republicans have made any meaningful reform impossible through half-assed negotiations, bad faith arguments, and “fEeLiNgS pOlItIcS” over the last 50 years.
Democrats like AOC and politicians like Bernie are the acute minority. The DNC has moved more toward the right and given workers the middle finger.
Almost every regulatory body has been captured. The overturn of the Chevron doctrine made the rest completely powerless. We now have a fucking lunatic whispering into Trump’s ear to remove accident reporting requirements for his shitty cars. We will have an anti-vaxer running the CDC, a supplement pushing hack running Medicare, and a man who overpaid for Twitter running the fucking “Department of Government Efficacy.”
This is the tip of the iceberg. They aren’t even in office yet and they are already stirring shit.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 5 days ago
Agree. Though the felt level of democracy and freedom seems pretty low. A lot of people feel disadvantaged. People are getting ripped off for example with healthcare payments by the (rich) establishment. I hear a lot of complaints here for example you absolutely need a VPN because all internet service providers spy on you. There seems always to be a choice, but a fake one. In the end, it's all the same and you can't really chisse anything but the label that gets slapped on. Same for the politicians. You have like 2 candidates to vote for. Probably neither of those does you any good. And they're both part of the oligarchy and they put in quite some effort to not offer you any third option.