A pretty interesting take, and an interesting discussion about what it means to be open source. Is there room for a trusted space between open source and closed corporate software?
I accidentally googled “FUTA Keyboard”
FUTO Keyboard: The Discussion Behind A Cool Product
Submitted 4 months ago by gedaliyah@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://tedium.co/2024/07/05/futo-keyboard-foss-source-first-discussion/
Comments
Twinkletoes@lemm.ee 4 months ago
vale@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
My primary method of typing on mobile is swipe typing:
FUTO
diesdoes aferventdecent job at it, but itsumstill has a wayFYIto gofitfor me to make a full switch IMO.I am quite impressed by the voice to text method though. But I do wish it would show what is being transcribed in real time. Overall, I’m impressed with what the team is doing. I can’t wait to see the next iterations of this, but for now, I think I’m going to have to stick with G board. Additionally, the GIF picker is super convenient on G-board.
Statick@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I like how you showed the incorrect words it was using while using the swipe typing. I had the same experience and, unfortunately, until it
improvedimproves I’ll have to still with what works… Gboard.
MrCamel999@programming.dev 4 months ago
Honestly, since I can see the source code and confirm that it isn’t sending my data anywhere, I think it’s ok, even if it doesn’t meet the standard definition of foss. The keyboard is also pretty dang good, but I have two complaints. 1. I want to be able to resize the height of the keyboard. 2. The swipe typing sucks. As soon as those two things get fixed it’s easily the best keyboard on Android for me.
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You can adjust the height in the settings. I use the swipe and seems to be as good as other open source keyboards (I previously used heli and AnySoft). It is still in alpha so hopefully they can refine it further.
BTW, heliboard is also pretty excellent.
MrCamel999@programming.dev 4 months ago
Ah, that height setting was hidden then lol. That fixes that issue! I’m also very aware of Heliboard, that’s what I’m currently using (with the google proprietary blob for swipe typing). I just don’t feel like the swipe is that good, it often just doesn’t produce any word after I’m done swiping out the word. Thanks for the tip about the height!
dmtalon@infosec.pub 4 months ago
I both use, and bought this keyboard right after it was announced. I’d say it is not as good as gboard yet. I miss GIFs access and flip back and forth as required. I’ve had zero crashes on my Pixel 8P
It is my primary keyboard, and hopefully still learning, but word suggestion isn’t as good (yet). FUTO voice integrated in which I was already using can be quite good. I’m using the slower version which is a little less convenient but tends to work better.
mobilehugh@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Using it. Loving it.
henchman2019@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I use it on and off. I get annoyed that the swiping constantly gives the wrong words.
I know nothing about all this licensing stuff. Way over my head… But, is it possible that “futo” is using us to train their software, then when it’s working great, change it to a paid app?
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Not sure what you mean by “train.” If you mean “test” then yes, they are in alpha and anyone can submit bugs. As other users have said, we have only their word that they intend to keep the source available. If you mean “track users to train ML models,” then no. The whole point is that the software is private. All of the processing - the gesture typing, the audio processing, the LLM, etc are all performed on-device. And the source is visible for all to see, so it offers similar protections to FOSS software in this regard.
The software doesn’t “phone home” - it can’t even check itself for updates. It just sends you a little message on a predetermined schedule to manually check. (or you can use a repo/software manager)
In theory and in practice, any Open Source project could be purchased by a for profit company who takes down the source code. However, any prior code would remain under the previous open license. Apparently one of the issues with this license is that it contains no durable license for the code itself. You can’t just for it and make your own version, although you can use any of the code with certain noncommercial and attribution requirements.
henchman2019@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Thanks for explaining
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I doubt it. All of the AI stuff is local, and I don’t think there’s any network interaction other than checking for updates (you could check that, or block it with something like RethinkDNS or NetGuard), so there wouldn’t be any way for them to get your data. The other app of theirs I use, Grayjay, doesn’t even sync between instances of their app across devices, so I think it’s fair to say they explicitly avoid touching the network whatsoever.
henchman2019@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Thanks for responding
ThePantser@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I like the keyboard but it crashes frequently and android reverts back to gboard. On my OnePlus 9 pro.
mortalic@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Counter point, it hasn’t crashed once in my one plus 9 though I wish Swype worked better. I’m super happy to have another option though and am powering through it.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Same, but on a Pixel 8. Swiping kinda sucks, but it’s better than FOSS alternatives, and the suggestions are pretty good.
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’ve been using it for about a month now on a pixel phone and it’s been excellent. Parts of it are still in alpha, but I have been lucky.
joyjoy@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I installed it on my Z-Flip 4 recently and it works well. The only issues I’ve had besides having to retrain it is related to vibration feedback. Tab vibration on auto doesn’t work, and there’s no vibration when swiping on the spacebar to move the cursor.
mke@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Depends on what you mean by trust. This wasn’t made any clearer by reading the article.
“We promise not to do bad things” is not a safe long term contract. If they can change the terms at any moment and retain control, then they can break that promise and that’s final.
This is why open source matters. This is why we shouldn’t let people try to change the meaning open source. True open source is forever open, it’s the author’s Ulysses pact.
FUTO keyboard is source available, and that’s also final. Whether it is also “source first” and if that term is worth recognizing at all is a separate and discussion.
Can there be a trusted space between open and closed souece? Maybe, I don’t see why not. Again, define trust, and who’s judging. Some people already trust closed source proprietary software, for some reason, while others strongly reject anything that isn’t free software—remember, we’re not talking about price, here.
I wish FUTO and Rossman all the best, as I do with the free software ecosystem and most of open source. Open source is open source, though, let’s not get it twisted.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Exactly. I use and enjoy FUTO Keyboard and Grayjay, but I’m under no illusion about them being open source, they’re source available. I think they’re great products and great alternatives to proprietary software, but until it’s released under a proper FOSS license, I will be keeping my eye out for credible alternatives.
stepan@lemmy.cafe 4 months ago
You might like HeliBoard licensed under GPLv3. I’ve been using it for several months and I really like it. Sadly, for swipe-typing you need to load proprietary library.
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Outside of software spaces the discussion around copyright seems so much more nuanced. Any creative commons license is generally considered “copyleft” regardless of the details, and some are far more restrictive than the FUTO license. Consider projects like Wikipedia which accept content licensed under GDFL, or CC-BY, or CC-BY-SA, Apache 2.0, or PD.
I am not a programmer, so maybe I am missing a huge piece of context, but what is the insistence in the free software community for what seems like total license purity? I even see software engineers arguing that “everyone” should use Apache or MIT and not the other, which is somehow bad for the FOSS community. What am I missing? Isn’t more free better than less free?
mke@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I might not be the best person to explain this, but I believe you’re misunderstanding.
Inside software spaces, specific needs beget specific discussions. They are as nuanced as they need to be.
Did you know [Creative Commons] themselves recommend against using CC licenses for software?