Comment on But how would they be able to live on that?

Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The rich aren’t fleeing Massachusetts despite a wealth tax.

  Turns out there are disadvantages to living in tax havens over living in Boston and Cape Cod.

  wbur.org/…/mass-fair-share-millionaires-tax-anniv…

  source

  • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    But you can save so much tax money by moving to the middle of a desert in India!

    source

    • FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Even a nicer place like the Cayman Islands.

      Good luck shopping at a high-end fashion boutique or going to the opera there.

      source

      • Clent@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        But John Galt did it…in the libertarians’ imagination.

        We would be so screwed if all the billionaires went and lived in some secret mountain location. They should totally go do that.

        Tap for spoiler

        ~It will make tracking them down so much easier~

        source

        • -> View More Comments
  • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    a 4% surtax on incomes over $1 million

    Musk isn’t earning $220 billion a year, so clearly as I asked, this appears to be based on stock valuation.

    People spruiking and sharing absolute nonsense with zero idea of what is income, what is capital and how a “wealth tax” would actually work.

    This is why your opponents laugh at you.

    source

    • FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Who are my opponents?

      Also, the question was:

      And what do you do when they pack up and move themselves and their companies to tax havens?

      The answer is, they generally don’t leave.

      source

      • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Also, the question was:

        The question was

        So how does this wealth tax work?

        I know because I asked it and not a single one of you has had a coherent response.

        Oh like the tax in Massachusetts?

        The tax that would only see Musk pay $575 million and not the ass-pulled $6.6 billion?

        Who are my opponents?

        Apparently the ultra wealthy but you seem a bit confused.

        source

        • -> View More Comments
    • eskimofry@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So are you arguing that stock valuations mean nothing?

      billionaires make it difficult to judge their worth… because as pointed out they are trying to not pay taxes.

      source

      • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I’m arguing that by FlyingSquid’s own assertion that the Mass. wealth tax could be copied that the numbers make zero sense.

        What’s not to get here? Read what he claimed and read the link he provided.

        source
      • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Stock evaluations have value, and they’re already taxed upon realization of gains. The meme says we should take away Billions of Elon Musk’s stock shares every year, but idk that sounds like a pretty vague and unsustainable plan. Most companies would probably just go private and do a series of offerings to lower evaluations. We need to at least clearly define a bracket of who it effects, is it any stock shares amounting above 1 Billion? 1 Million? Also, why is the rate in the meme a 2.98%?

        It’s just not a plan. It’s the opposite of a plan, it’s a desired end result with no details at all.

        source
  • RustyEarthfire@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    That’s not a wealth tax, that is an income tax (+4% for the 1M+ tax bracket).

    Countries that have a general wealth tax are Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. Countries with a selective wealth tax (beyond property taxes) are Belgium, Italy, and the Netherlands. Source: pgpf.org/…/what-is-a-wealth-tax-and-should-the-un… (under the heading “How have wealth taxes worked in other countries”)

    source
• panicnow@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I have a house. I say have because while I have the title to the house, the bank has a lien that basically means they own it. Like a stock, my house increases in value. The government in my state then taxes me on the value of the house. Taxing me on unrealized gains in the house (I have not sold it) is like taxing a rich person on the unrealized gains of stock (that they have not sold).

  It is possible to come up with ways to tax stock. It will be imperfect like all tax systems are. It will be better than what we have now.

  source

  • alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Indeed, property taxes should just be extended to also cover stocks and bonds.

    That should be the basic premise.

    source
• Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Is the government meant to take the profit in stocks?

  Yes.

  There is no need for the billionaire to liquidate their stock in order to pay a tax in dollars. The IRS just confiscates an equal percentage of every position they hold, and liquidates it over time, selling no more than 1% of each position’s total traded volume per month, so as to not radically impact the stock price.

  When they pack up and move, we say “mission accomplished”. Let them leech off an adversary’s economy.

  source

  • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The IRS just confiscates an equal percentage of every position they hold

    Congrats there are now 3 men who can collaborate to collapse the government by shorting an insane position, have a portion of it seized, and wipe out all government revenue for a year. Sure they’d also be infinitely broke but you just gave them the lever to kill a country.

    source

    • candybrie@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      How would that possibly wipe out all government revenue for a year? The government didn’t have to buy the stock. There is no way they’d be worse off revenue wise than the current situation where there is no tax taken on these held stocks.

      source

      • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Position vs stock. Learn to read.

        source
    • Rivalarrival@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So the IRS seizes an option on the shorted position rather than the position itself, which comes due when Or, any liability for a position is assessed back to the investor rather than the government. Or any number of other rules are established to keep the IRS from assuming liability for losses.

      And, of course, the three men who collaborated are charged with securities fraud and conspiracy.

      Liquidators would also have rules allowing them to react to market manipulation and other artificial market influences.

      source
• SupraMario@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This entire thread is people who don’t understand how the system works.

  source

  • Grimy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    That or they understand the system is broken

    source

    • Imalostmerchant@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You can understand something is broken without knowing how to fix it. But you can’t fix something without knowing how it works or being extremely lucky.

      source
    • Jakdracula@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The systems not broken it was built this way.

      source

      • SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The system was built broken.

        source
    • SupraMario@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Naa I think a large chunk just think most of these guys have that in cash laying around. Someones liquid worth is a lot less than what they have. Everyone of these guys has their money tied to a company. If you make them sell the stock to cover the tax you’re going to watch these companies go under.

      I’m not saying it’s a good system, just that it doesn’t work the way these memes act like they do.

      Would you like to have the gov tax you on your entire worth? Probably not.

      source
  • s38b35M5@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “Finance and economics is too complex for the poors to understand. Just trust us; we know what’s best doe everyone.” -The not-poors

    source
• jennwiththesea@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I think you’re confusing a wealth tax with an income tax. They’re different. As for how these wealthy people pay, it’s not up to the government to figure out how someone pays their taxes. The onus is on the taxpayer.

  source
• eskimofry@lemm.ee ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Sounds funny you trying to tax these billionaires and are failing to find any obvious way… which is what these billionaires do to hide from tax and paying their fair share.

  source