Comment on It shouldn't matter if people work multiple jobs. The former VP of HR at Microsoft shares how to react to double dippers — 'get over it.'

• awesome357@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It’s because the system is designed to keep us paid just enough to live and keep buying from companies, but not enough to have true independence. Working two jobs is cheating that system by giving you more money and freedom than they want you to have. Once you have financial security you can start to wonder about how fucked up this “system” truly is.

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  • CulturedLout@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Except they’re not even paying us enough to live anymore

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Do you really think anyone out there really wants you to not have more? Doesn’t seem to me that anyone cares. I think the concern is that you will perform your job halfway, not that you will become too solvent. Having more money to spend is always good for the capitalists. Hurting productivity is the fear (whether right or wrong).

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• EatATaco@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I don’t follow. If you’re claiming you’re putting 40 hours of work in a week, or that is what your contract says, and you’re really only doing 20 because you’re splitting it between two jobs…isn’t that obviously cheating the system?

  Don’t get me wrong, I don’t give a shit if people take advantage of a corporation to milk it for cash, but it seems to me to be pretty clearly cheating the system. If you want to get paid on what you produce, and not the time you put in, then you should structure your contracts that I way. I know a lot of my side work I don’t bill hourly precisely because I know it can be done quickly ( for me with experience) but it’s worth more to them.

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  • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If you’re salaried, you’re not usually obligated to work a certain number of hours, you’re just obligated to complete tasks on time. If someone holds two salaried positions and works fast enough that they get all obligations for both completed in 40 hours a week, they’re not cheating anyone.

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    • EatATaco@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Ive worked many salaried jobs in my life. I’ve never seen a work contract that simply defines your tasks you have to get done. Not saying that it doesn’t happen, but I would be hard pressed to believe it’s common. I don’t even know how you would do that because what tasks I do always shifts, especially in tech. On top of that, how long a task takes is extremely unpredictable. Sometimes I fly through something, sometimes that last 10% takes 90% of the time.

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      • archomrade@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I think this helps elucidate the real issue here, which is the distinction between selling labor and selling your time. One of those is obviously more reasonable and the other shares a conceptual relationship with other types of indentured labor.

        It used to be that the distinction didn’t matter since you had to be in a particular place to do a particular work anyway, selling your labor and selling your time looked basically the same and your employer could control and manage how you spent that time. But with remote work, the employer no longer has control over managing your time because they have no (reasonable) way to monitor your production; an employer utilizing monitoring software would (rightly) be seen as an abuse and invasion of privacy. So even though the contract hasn’t changed, people are more aware of how dehumanizing it is not to have sold their labor but control over a certain number of hours of their life.

        I obviously have bias here, but I think defining labor by its measure of time is alienating and inhumane.

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      • iquanyin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        it definitely happens.

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      • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        My point is more that salaried employees, by definition, are not required to put in a certain amount of hours. That would make them hourly employees. All salaried employees are required to do is to complete their work by a deadline. What that work is and what the deadline is are usually not defined specifically in their contract, because as you said, both those things constantly change, so it would be impossible to reflect that in some binding agreement.

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    • ikapoz@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I manage a decent sized team of salaried people and I am 100% behind this.

      If I were to have a criticism it would be of management hiring more people than they really need, not paying good wages, and/or not recognizing when one of their people is ready for a bigger role.

      It’s never happened on my team that I know of, but if I were to run into that case and my guy was getting his job done properly then zero fucks would be given.

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      • phillaholic@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Do all of your team members finish their work at the same time, or are some slower than others? Do some require more help than others, or take up more than your time managing? Do you just fire the worst performing ones? Does anything change if you find out that the worst performing person has another job he’s doing during the same hours he’s working for you and maybe that’s why he’s performing under his peers?

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  • DingoBilly@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Not sure why you’re down voted but you are right.

    I get paid to do 40 hours of work a week and I feel like I’m cheating the system as I definitely don’t work anywhere close to that.

    I think people just are comfortable screwing over companies as they will screw you as often as they can so they don’t see it as cheating in this case, but it’s definitely a rare case where the worker gets more out of it than the business.

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  • iquanyin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    why do you assume they don’t work their full hours?

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    • FaeDrifter@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      inc.com/…/in-an-8-hour-day-the-average-worker-is-…

      Office workers are productive on average about 3 hours out of an 8 hour workday.

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      • phillaholic@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Not sure how that’s an argument that it’s ok to have two jobs. If people can only concentrate on work for 3 out of 8 hours, where are they getting the concentration for another job? More likely that 3 hours get divided to 1.5 to each.

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    • EatATaco@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Mainly because I’m not naive, but more concretely because i have followed this movement because it interested me when I wanted to make more money.

      But even if we want to pretend that all of these people are actually working 80 hour weeks, the article talks about juggling zoom meetings and falls, so it’s clearly talking about some kind of deception at least as to when you are working.

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It really depends on the job. For example, security guards need to be present AND vigilant. It’s not reasonable for them to be fooling with spreadsheets on their phone or something. However, a spreadsheet worker is not technically required to sit in their chair 40 hours. They need to get a certain amount of work done. Who cares when they do it? The rub comes when some people think that the spreadsheet job is mandated 40 hours in the chair but it really isn’t. That’s not in the papers you signed. It’s just a “soft expectation” or assumption that management had. If you are completing all the work expected of you during a day, it shouldn’t matter if it took you a full 8 hours or not.

    Now kind you, someone who only completes what’s given and never contributes extra in their own initiative, or looks for additional ways to be helpful, is not going to be as appreciated. They might not get promoted as fast. But that’s different than cheating.

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• scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  It really should depend on the role. If part of your job is being available for inbound requests, or participating in group work of some kind, it seems reasonable to expect that during the business day you will be available and not randomly tied up with other commitments. It would be hard to have two such jobs.

  If it’s a task completion kind of job then it shouldn’t matter exactly when the tasks get done as long as they get done.

  But you should be able to have one “high availablility” job and one “task completion” job at the same time because your tasks can always be set aside if you are needed. Or two task completion jobs, for the same reason.

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