Comment on YSK that Joseph Stalin created the Great Terror. He started killing people randomly including artists, generals, doctors, scientists, government officials. Everyone was terrified.

Gork@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• VinegarChunks@lemmus.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  As older generations with direct knowledge die off, the younger generations are forgetting.

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  • Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The younger generation doesn’t remember it in the first place, due to not being alive. And that is used against them.

    It’s why it’s important to teach students to be critical of their sources. And try to find multiple reputable sources that corroborate the same information.

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• qyron@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Just this morning, I was looking at a tv screen when it was announced a new study had concluded nearly 68% of russians still lament the disband of the soviet union.

  Propaganda as it is, even if we cut those numbers by two thirds, it’s still too many people longing by one of the most brutal totalitarian regimes that has ever existed.

  As a side note: I worked for some time with a company that imported machinery from Ukraine and Belarus, in the 2000’s, and I saw the amount of graffiti with USSR simbology that was plastered on the crates. Some people don’t allow it to just shrivel and die silently.

  This isn’t to say the USSR did not created good things.

  I worked with a fellow from Romania and he was appalled with how bad by comparison my country’s public health care system was.

  But the numbers tally a grimm story of the USSR and the wrongs vastly outnumber the rights.

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  • dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Lamenting the fall of the Soviet Union isn’t the same as thinking Stalin was good. There were several people after Stalin who didn’t randomly disappear people. At least, not as much.

    That said, post WWII through the fall of the USSR I’d bet the average Soviet citizen had a better standard of living than the average Russian does today.

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    • qyron@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      We can ask some russian citizens if they’re available. Until that opportunity presents itself, we’ll have to make do with whatever information we can access and read it with a good dose of skepticism.

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      • yucandu@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        We can ask some russian citizens if they’re available.

        This guy has some pretty good cartoon shorts on Russian nostalgia:

        www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQGQT9b9jeI

        www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1u7XZ9c8fI

        www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfydR4ra4U0

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  • Wrrzag@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “am I so about of touch? No, it’s the Russians who are wrong”

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• ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s more that some people don’t actively condemn him to the satisfaction of others.

  The USSR under Stalin defeated Nazi Germany. Idle denunciation of Stalin in 2026 is the classic and most trusted pivot for (crypto)fascists to focus on when cornered or feeling insecure.

  That’s the primary scenario that people are accused of ‘defending Stalin’. There’s always a nazi all too willing to spearhead this conversation, 70 years on after his death. Usually can’t even bring up Khrushchev and De-Stalinization usually since it’s not focusing on Stalin enough.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Usually can’t even bring up Khrushchev and De-Stalinization usually since it’s not focusing on Stalin enough.

    They usually can’t bring this stuff up because they have no idea about any of it

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  • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’ve spent time with Marxist-Leninists who worshiped Stalin, thought Stalin was a great Marxist theorist, and he also was very fond of North Korea. While I’m not saying you’re wrong, I do wonder what you make of someone in a leftist space who was so enthusiastic about Stalin without being prompted to defend him by fascists?

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    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I wouldn’t really be able to know what they’re on about without interacting with them, quite frankly. But I can’t say I really approve of the worship of political figures, historical or not.

      I try to approach historical figures as a part of the context in which they existed. It does sound like this person was into theory, so I’d wager their interest in Stalin was more academic than a celebration of the ills that occurred in 20th century Eurasia. But if this person was advocating for Lysenkoism or someshit then you’ve got a grade A idiot.

      Like, I find Stalin to be fascinating and the balance of power that he operated both inside and outside the USSR to be remarkable. He can be a very symbolic figure for a kind of struggle against overwhelming odds, which resonates at least on some level with a lot of people, Marxist or not. People get really into things like mob bosses and Scarface so I would try to slate someone’s fandom of Stalin against that, too.

      Also, if American, we go over eight decades of rabid anti-communism so sometimes people throw up things like hammers and sickles just as a fuck-you to (Neo)McCarthyism.

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• Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Not necssesarily defend, but they shift blame away from Stalin. Essentially, “He was bad, but not THAT bad, that’s just western propaganda”

  You’ll see commonly that .ml excuses the famines (yes, plural) created by Stalin by shifting the blame towards environmental factors like “oh but there was a bit of a drought” or “they actually did it all themselves by burning their grain”, “it was to stop the Nazis from siezing the grain themselves”, the list of excuses goes on.

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  • silentjohn@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Essentially, “He was bad, but not THAT bad, that’s just western propaganda”

    www.cia.gov/…/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf

    “Even in Stalin’s time, there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the communist setup is exaggerated.”.

    “tankies” though, amirite?

    the list of excuses goes on.

    A much more convenient excuse is that the USA is telling the truth about USSR while simultaneously executing millions of communists in South America, Africa, and Asia and lying about pretty much everything regarding anti-capitalism over the past century.

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    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      LMAO. How to summon the .ml warrior with this one simple step. Thank you for proving my point.

      The US is not the only source of information regarding USSR, you’re acting like we in Europe don’t know what happened right next to us.

      Plenty of us millenials are old enough to have spoken to our late great grandparents. Who saw what happened with their own eyes. Or did you forget that one little detail? It’s not very convenient for you is it. That we’ve actually still have accounts of those who witnessed and experienced it first hand.

      Fuck the USSR, fuck the apologists, fuck Russia, and fuck the US.

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      • silentjohn@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Me: provides evidence from the CIA itself, directly related to the topic on hand

        Another user: provides evidence that many/most ex-soviet citizens actually preferred Socialism vs the Shock Capitalism they experienced. (Read Shock Doctrine and Blackshirts and Reds)

        You: nuh uhh! My great grandparents told me a story once!

        How to summon the .ml warrior with this one simple step.

        Yes indeed. I fight against misinformation and for human rights. I support and march alongside strikers. I confront Proud Boys and other fascists. I resist against ICE. I fight for LGBTQ+ and BIPOC rights. I am active in mutual aid in my community. I’ve helped put Progressives and Socialists in elected office. I’m organizing my community against fascism and capitalism that ruins our lives.

        You? Well … what have you accomplished lately?

        That we’ve actually still have accounts of those who witnessed and experienced it first hand.

        Yes of course. And there’s Cubans in Miami who denounce Cuba. Nevermind that these people are all ex-land owners, factory owners, and capitalists who exploited the working class for their own benefit. Castro was kind enough to exile them instead of what Mao did.

        ---

        Myth: Communism Killed 100 Million+ People

        Debunked:

        Death tolls often include WWII casualties, famines, and natural disasters, misattributed to communism.

        Capitalist atrocities (Native American genocide, transatlantic slavery) dwarf these numbers.

        Sources like the “Black Book of Communism” are ideologically biased and widely discredited.

        ---

        Myth: “Communist countries have no food!”

        Busted:

        Famines (e.g., USSR 1921) were caused by war/sanctions, not socialism.

        Socialist states often had better nutrition than capitalist peers (e.g., Cuba’s food security vs. US food deserts).

        Capitalist countries waste 40% of food while millions starve.

        ---

        A good book to read is Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism by Kristen Ghodsee. So yea, read some books. Or rely on anecdotes 2 generations removed lol

        Blocking you, I have no desire to continue this thread.

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      • Ferrous@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        A 2013 Gallup survey showed that 66% of Armenians thought the dissolution of the USSR was harmful

        In a 2016 survey, 69% of Azerbaijanis believed life was better under the USSR.

        In a 2016 survey, it increased to 53% of Belarusians saying life was better under the USSR

        Another Pew survey, also in 2017, showed that 43% of Georgians thought the dissolution was a good thing, compared to 42% who thought it was a bad thing.

        In a 2016 survey, around 60% of Kazakhs above the age of 35 believed life was better under the USSR.

        A 2013 Gallup survey showed that 61% of Kyrgyz thought the dissolution of the USSR was harmful, compared to 16% who thought it was beneficial.

        A 2013 Gallup survey showed that 42% of Moldovans thought the dissolution of the USSR was harmful, compared to 26% who thought it was beneficial.[7] Regret about dissolution later increased to 70% according to a 2017 Pew survey, with only 18% saying the dissolution was a good thing.

        Levada polling since the mid-1990s on the preferred political and economic system of Russians also shows nostalgia for the Soviet Union, with the most recent polling in 2021 showing 49% preferring the Soviet political system, compared to 18% preferring the current system, and 16% preferring Western democracy, as well as 62% saying they preferred a system of economic planning compared to 24% preferring a market capitalist economy.

        en.wikipedia.org/…/Nostalgia_for_the_Soviet_Union

        Further, let’s look at the actual referendum:

        Do you consider it necessary to preserve the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics as a renewed federation of equal sovereign republics, in which the rights and freedoms of a person of any nationality will be fully guaranteed?

        Yes - 77.8%

        en.wikipedia.org/…/1991_Soviet_Union_referendum

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  • BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I saw once a dude defending Mao cause “famines happen like great potatoe famine”

    except one was on mid 1800s and the other was in 1960s…

    These people are mental.

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• DrDickHandler@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  We are in the golden age of stupidity. People defend everything.

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  • dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Image

    source, pg 493

    (see also)

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