Comment on New sodium ion battery stores twice the energy and desalinates seawater

• Frozentea725@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Great response, people just love to parrot easy dismissals without looking and the sheer magnitude on innovation and commercialisation going on in this sector

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  • tb_@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    It doesn’t really dispute it, though. Lithium-ion has seen a lot of improvement, yes, because it’s already a giant industry; other battery chemistries have a hard time breaking through because they require entirely different processes to manufacture.
    I’m still rooting for it, but it’s not really the same thing.

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    • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      This too is false, great progress has been made on for instance solid state batteries.

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      • tb_@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Some progress is being made, but it hasn’t seen large-scale adoption yet. Which is the point, as I read it.

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      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        You can’t buy anything with solid state batteries yet, and when you can, they will cost a fortune.

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  • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Well all those graphs show is that the cost of batteries has gone down and that as a result electric cars contain more batteries and therefore more range. It doesn’t actually show that the individual battery capacity has increased.

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    • WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      @Warl0k3@lemmy.world The hero we need!

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      • Warl0k3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Did you mean to tag me?

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    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Shhhh…we’re having a bullshit feel good moment…

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• henfredemars@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Wow! Thanks for sharing that data. I had no idea.

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• Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  TBF, there are a lot of “battery breakthroughs” that turn out to just be hot air. Battery technology had made tremendous progress though and there is still a lot of room for improvement.

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  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    hot air.

    No, that’s a different type of battery.

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    • Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      No, this is Patrick.

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      • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Patrick who?

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  • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    There actually is not a lot of room for improvement. Highest energy will still be limited to lithium chemistry because of the periodic table.

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    • Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That’s a limit on gravimetric energy density. There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

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      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        There are plenty of other parameters that can be improved.

        You don’t know that. This is chemistry, not Moore’s stupid law.

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• CaptPretentious@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Weird, I didn’t know Lithium-Ion batteries were still in the lab. I thought for sure we were using those already. I thought the batteries in the labs were various solid-state batteries like graphene or like this sodium-ion battery, where there’s been a rise in patents around it but not a lot delivered

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  • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    There are a bunch of lithium ion chemistries that have come to market more recently.

    LFP sits in the low cost marker while NCA is the highest performing of the mass market batteries, and NMC is somewhere in between.

    Sodium might be coming for LFP’s low cost position, and is already beginning mass production (some Chinese manufacturers expect those models to hit the road in a few months).

    If you think rechargeable battery R&D from 10 years ago isn’t making it into mass produced products today, you’re just not paying attention.

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    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      There are a bunch of lithium ion chemistries that have come to market more recently

      Like what? [Citation required]

      If you think rechargeable battery R&D from 10 years ago isn’t making it into mass produced products today, you’re just not paying attention.

      Please provide examples.

      I mean, as much as a person who doesn’t work in research and development of energy storage, or work in industries directly related to it, I personally feel I’ve kept up. The day Donut Labs announced their battery I was watching review videos about it, and I want to believe, but until I see it for purchase, I’m not going to call it a win.

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      • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Like what?

        Wasn’t LFP commercialized at EV scale like a decade ago? It went from like 0% market share to majority market share in about a decade.

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• SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  All that data says is batteries got cheaper so they are putting more of them into cars. Also 100 to 300 wh/kg is in labs. No explanation why it went from 175 to 100 Wh/kg 08-10.

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  • GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    We’ve had 3 major changes in battery chemistry in the last 45 years. Energy density, lifespan, cost, and dangerous materials have all generally improved. We also have 2 new battery technologies in the process of becoming generally commercially available. Also, batteries went from 500 mAh batteries about the size of your smartphone to 3000 mAh as a minor component of that same smartphone, about an order of magnitude in energy density.

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  • floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    No explanation? You might want to get checked for daltonism

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• Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I mean the first diagram is effectively useless without knowledge of battery density. They as well could compare the 2010 compacts with 2025s SUVs which have probably 2x the amount of total capacity.
  For the other charts: Agreed.

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