FYI if you’re ham licensed, you can boost the output power of your mesh radio. There’s a setting in most firmwares.
Comment on What if the Internet Goes Down? - 15 Jan, 7PM CET
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’ll say what I just said on a similar thread: if the internet goes down tomorrow, mesh will mean very little compared to ham radio.
Any quality transceiver built in the last 100 years will be more useful. It is purely about how many exist, how lineg they last, and their requirements for use (which are effectively, power and antenna).
Yes, there is a license that you need in non-emergency situations. It doesn’t change much anything in emergency situations, and it certainly doesn’t affect the fact that there are already millions of radios out there.
ch00f@lemmy.world 1 day ago
JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If I recall correctly, you can, but it removes your node from the public networks everyone else is using because hams cannot use encryption for coms as part of the rules for ham operation, as the non ham network is encrypted by default. You would have to build a secondary network independent of the public node list.
Correct me if I’m wrong. But that was my understanding of the difference.
ch00f@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You’re probably right. I noticed the feature, but haven’t personally tried it.
rumba@lemmy.zip 17 hours ago
But you lose encryption.
random_character_a@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Here meshtastic has become part of the emergency information network initiative. If there is a coms blackout, intercity/town civillian communications are to be handled by amateur radio enthusiast with licence and communications whitin the city/town will be handled by licence free systems. Meshtastic has been spreading well among the general public, so it has become most viable system to use at lowest level in the chain.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
But it just isn’t. Why not put those resources towards ham, where there are considerably more handsets already there?
This seems like a solution in search of a problem thay was already solved, hidden by people who don’t want a $10 license.
ysjet@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Have you thought about not trying to drag meshtastic down to try and prop ham up?
I get it, you spent a bunch of time studying for your ham and you don’t want it to feel like a waste, but lets be perfectly frank here- most people aren’t going to get a HAM license. It IS, however, VERY accessible for someone to buy a cheap gadget on sale to try out.
I never understand why ham radio people always try to sabotage every other communication method, but you guys do it every time.
Let other people communicate how they want.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I’m not trying to drag anything down. But I think it is important for many people to realize that the meshtastic is ultimately a ham device. It is using specific parts of the spectrum and reduced power to avoid needing the license. There’s nothing wrong with that, but by definition, it isn’t really adding anything that can’t also be done on ham. In a similar vein, the only direction to go in terms of enhancing its capabilities is further into ham.
And no, I didn’t spend a bunch of time doing anything. People vastly overestimate the complexity of the ham radio exams.
But by all means, use what you want to communicate. I’m not trying to dissuade anyone from it – I just think it’s important that they know the limitations of the device compared to the greater whole in which it exists.
random_character_a@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
You get shitloads more people to buy a cheap gadget that’s easy carry with you.
If you start talking about ham radios and licences, most people loose interest before you finish the sentence.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The HAM license isn’t a trivial checkbox test, at least not over here
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
I’d love to know where a ham test is difficult.
merc@sh.itjust.works 15 hours ago
I’ll say what I just said on a similar thread: if the internet goes down tomorrow, mesh will mean very little compared to ham radio.
For what purpose? Hanging out with friends? Watching porn? Getting vital information around?
AFAIK, ham is really mostly geared towards synchronous voice communication, whereas most of the Internet is asynchronous communication in a variety of forms: text, voice, video, etc. In an emergency, synchronous voice is pretty important. But, for day-to-day life, asynchronous dominates most people’s usage of things.
So, if the Internet goes down tomorrow and you need to know why, what happened, etc. your best bet is probably not ham radio but normal TV and radio broadcasts, not rumours being spread by other random people using ham radio. If you live in a country where a complete overnight shut down of the internet, and complete stopping of all news broadcasts is possible, then ham might be useful for the first few days / hours to figure out what’s going on. But, in the longer term, ham isn’t really a replacement for the Internet. For that you’d want asynchronous sharing of various kinds of data, which is more a mesh network, not ham radio.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 18 hours ago
What good is ham radio in a “replace the internet” situation though? Can you send data over it? I read early that you can’t encrypt it. I’m not an expert on the subject but as far as I can tell from reading about it here, it’s not an answer to this topic.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
It allows for worldwide comms, even in situations where entire infrastructures cease to exist. This is especially useful for emergency situations.
There are many, many digital modes on ham radio. The encryption question is one of legality – not capability. But the short answer is yes, you can do various things with data on ham radio.
I guess it’s a question of the level of disaster / political strife / etc which causes the internet to no longer be usable.
JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’ve come to the realization that mesh nodes are little more than a gateway drug into the world of ham radio. And for that I’m grateful.
It’s not as good, and does everything worse than radio. The only real world use I have found is for when cellphone networks get overwhelmed at things like music festivals and large sports games. No one else’s texts go through, but I can toss by buds a node to put in their back pocket and we can stay in touch.
our local mature club is building our local mesh network out now as an introduction to the ham world. And it’s working. It’s getting the younger kids and adults through the door. And from there, it’s an easy thing to get them interested in more useful and fun forms of communication.
0x0@lemmy.zip 15 hours ago
You meant senior citizens or content?
JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Why not both? 😉
Great typo, I’m leaving it.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Now that I like. And I think there is room for both – IF people know and understand the differences.
Mesh against ham in an emergency is not even a competition, in my view. The numbers just aren’t there. But for random cellular failures etc, I see some utility.
Personally, I’ve just seen so much more about mesh lately than ham, and it makes me sad. If it’s a gateway, as you suggest, then great. I worry that people see it as a novelty and not a gateway.
JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Oh it’s a hundred percent just the novelty communication technology that is in vogue right now. I don’t really know if it’s a true zeitgeist technology or if someone with a lot of product to sell who is playing with the social media algorithm. But I guess I don’t really care much.
The trick is to find a way to seize on that opportunity. Now that our mesh network is structurally sound and sufficient, I’m working on using a raspberry pi to automate our ham club meeting dates, testing dates, and field days, and then blast those messages once a week or so over the mesh network. That way, an impulse buy turns into the discovery of a fuctional network and afterwards, a random person can discover a whole local community of people with all sorts of new things to learn.
You can lead a horse to water. But you can’t make him drink.
first you need a trough. That’s the mesh network. After, the horse needs to be thirsty. That’s the curiosity people have. information, the when and how and where, you can automate and passively tell them about. that’s the water.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Good on you for using one to bolster the other! Smart use of the tech either way.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 day ago
There was a massive power outage in Portugal not too long ago and people used Meshtastic to communicate between cities to see who had power.
It does work, but it’s not a Final Solution
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
…is that a pun?
rumba@lemmy.zip 17 hours ago
Meshtastic has some store-and-forward stuff that’s damn nice but someone has to set it up.
Meshcore has routers, repeaters and mailboxes.
It it could be pushed up to a few watts it would be far more useful.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
I like the idea of a ham radio, but too voice shy to actually talk lol, so I don’t bother with it.
btsax@reddthat.com 22 hours ago
JS8Call and FT8 are digital modes that don’t require talking. Plenty of other things to do as well
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Now let me introduce you to APRS 😁
It’s pretty much the HAM equivalent of Meshtastic
JackbyDev@programming.dev 20 hours ago
FT8 is fun and doesn’t require talking. CW too but you need to learn Morse code.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 20 hours ago
I bring FRS radios (normal ol’ walkie talkies) to the local Renaissance festival which has awful to no cell reception. It works great.
But yeah the barrier to even getting a technician license is too high. You get people that get excited and wanna do stuff and then they’re told they can’t. So things like meshtastic where they actually can do radio related things without a license are great.
rumba@lemmy.zip 17 hours ago
The question pool is so small you can memorize it :)
9/10 of the tech test is common sense or courtesy, and the bare minimum to make contact
JackbyDev@programming.dev 16 hours ago
I get you, it’s pretty easy, but I’m just saying trying to get somebody into a hobby, and then saying “actually you can’t talk to people until you schedule a test” is a huge barrier.
RattlerSix@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I’ve been fooling around with Meshtastic for a couple years and haven’t come up with a real world use for it yet, other than scenarios like you mentioned.
What would be really cool is if cell phone makers could incorporate a mesh into their phones as a local public channel when the tower goes out. It would probably just be used by drug dealers or something, but it’s the only cool and functional idea I can come up with.
JustAnotherPodunk@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If they can’t charge an admittance fee or a per message fee, they won’t implement it. It goes against their business model.
But we can dream.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Controlling home automation remotely without any internet access.
Tracking dogs, people or vehicles - again with no internet.
RattlerSix@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I don’t see how you could get enough reliability to do either from any distance.