Comment on Apple removes app created by Andrew Tate
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year agoI don’t support them at all. I don’t believe in their cause. I don’t believe in their messaging.
Philosophically I’m against all deep platforming, and I’m pointing out that if you want to prevent yourself from being deplatformed, you have to liberate yourself from app stores which have strong opinions.
So I will provide deep platforming advice to anyone, for any reason, because I believe everyone should have a voice.
Whilst I understand your point Iggy/miles sonkin the defacto leader is on record of saying the following when talking of treatment of women:
Let’s not kid ourselves this is Pavlovian conditioning!
I can’t see why anyone would allow them to retain access to anyplatform. Looks like a cult, acts like a cult, it is a cult!
so you’d be the person to give the nazis a platform
“I’m not saying they deserve a platform, they deserve a web app” - jet the absolute doofus
The huge problem with everyone shifting from Reddit is there is the echo chamber and hive mind is going to build back up with it. Most people can’t seem to be nuanced enough to appreciate your comment because they’re seething so much over who the subject is. Liberty is deserved amongst all, not just those you agree with.
You know what? I am fine with a hive mind that collectively decided nazis should be punched and andrew human trafficker tate should be deplatformed.
Sounds like you’re on par with the nazis yourself there buddy. Keep advocating violence and censorship 🤌
Fuck off with that “antifascists are the real nazis” shit.
Appreciate your post. I find it incredibly ironic too, because the fediverse, and Lemmy specifically are open platforms designed exactly against deplatforming as well.
We are all communicating on the platform designed exactly for this scenario. I appreciate that people are going to react and have their own strong opinions, but we’re standing on the foundation of freedom that extends to everyone.
The fediverse (Lemmy included) deplatforms people all the time; it’s called defederation and it’s built into the core of the architecture.
Even platforms built on openness, such as Lemmy, understand the need to not provide a platform to violence, bigotry, and exploitation.
In the sense that an organization can run their own Lemmy instance, even if other people don’t connect to that instance. It censorship resistance. An isolated let me instance still works. They have their platform.
Just like IP routing can survive many routers being destroyed, Lemmy can survive many people disagreeing with each other. That’s what I mean by open, censorship proof, deep platform proof.
People defederating from each other is a feature, and I totally agree with it.
You’re being reasonable. That doesn’t fly here my friend.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Evelyn Beatrice Hall, 1906
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Exactly, both sides should be heard.
One sides says that women should be able live without being in constant fear of assault and harassment, and the other says that women are pieces of meat , to be used and thrown away.
Both have equal merit, and should definitely be in public discourse.
Nythos@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Racists, sexists and homophobes do not deserve a platform from which they can continue to spew their vitriol.
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
I respectfully disagree, if we think speech is a human right, it has to be for everyone, or it’s for no one.
avater@lemmy.world 1 year ago
are you really comparing women rights movement to the things a cunt like tate is doing ?
what the actual fuck?
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
I’m not saying their causes of equal merit, but I am saying women’s liberation started as a minority position in society, heavily censored, not provided a platform to speak on. They were extremely unpopular.
By creating open platforms, that anyone can use, we don’t have to rely on the people in power allowing voices to be heard. People’s voices can participate, and survive by their own merits.
Every struggle in society, with a equality especially, starts with secret message passing, secret organization, finding a voice. We need to keep the pathways open so that repressed people can have a voice. Unfortunately that means opinions we don’t agree with, as well as opinions we do agree with.
ABCDE@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That isn’t what was said, but what you inferred.
chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is where everyone gets it wrong. Can you say anything you want? Sure, I suppose so. But there are CONSEQUENCES for what you say. One of those consequences is that a particular bit of speech is frowned upon at best, and made illegal at worst. It would be totally fine to yell “Bomb,” on an airplane if there was never a bomb on an airplane, and never would be. But there has been, and there probably will be again, so you can’t yell that without CONSEQUENCES. The consequences that these asshats are facing for their particular brand of bullshit is that they are being silenced, because they should not be saying the things that they are. Plain and simple. is speech a right, sure, until it’s abused, and then the rights of the many override the right to speech of the few.
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
I agree with you, and in your examples I would expect the consequences to come from the judiciary after following due process publicly.
I would not expect the gas company, the electrical company, the water company to turn off utilities for the person who yelled bomb on an airplane. I would expect a court to hand down a decision to rectify that situation.
For our erstwhile plane enthusiast, I would expect them to still get basic utilities even though they’re unpopular. And I would defend their right to have water power and gas Even though they’re a social pariah.
Because Apple, and Google are guardians of the public square on phones, which is how most people use the internet anyway, I think it’s reasonable to point out that progressive web apps are way to survive deplatforming for any organization.
Eheran@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I hope we agree that we don’t want them to ever normalize again. Just like there need to be rules to prevent people from tricking others, there need to be rules to prevent the spread of hatred that we know(!) leads to millions of innocents getting killed.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Let’s say you own a cafe with an open mic night. One day, someone comes in to the open mic night and starts yelling racist slogans and repeating Nazi rhetoric.
You can let them continue because you’re a free speech absolutist, and lose your customers, or you can kick him out.
There is no difference between this and what Apple or YouTube does except for scale.
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
I agree with you. And I’m not saying Apple, or YouTube or wrong for deplatforming them.
I am pointing out people in this position can take advantage of an open internet to still have a platform for their voice that does not rely on gatekeepers.
jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Ok, I’ll try to explain the issue with that. Do I have the right to pay someone to kill you? No. Then there’s already a limitation on my speech AND use of private property. How can we reconcile that with free speech? By thinking about why free speech or any human rights matters. I could go on a dissertation here, but I’ll skip what is easy to find online anyway and jump to the conclusion: human rights are positive rights that are intended to protect human dignity (in the philosophical sense of the indivisible and equal worth of all human life), so it follows that free speech only applies to speech that doesn’t go against that goal. If you don’t do this exercise you end up with the Paradox of Tolerance and all human rights crumble like a house of cards.
jet@hackertalks.com 1 year ago
Right, and in society we have more or less agreed that the people who can exclude somebody’s speech, or make speech disappear, is the judiciary following due process. Private companies are not the judiciary.
So if a court puts a gag order on this organization saying they can’t have an internet presence, that’s fine.
In your example, hiring a hitman against me, I would expect a court to enact protection order, and perhaps even a gag order on yourself. Then I would expect platforms online to honor that gag order if you were to post anyway.
If a private company, took it upon themselves to deplatform you without a court order, I would disagree with thatz even though your speech is against me. I hold this principle very highly, even when it’s against my own individual personal interests, because I want a stable society more than anything else.
GreenMario@lemm.ee 1 year ago
He can make his own website. Look up LAMP and get to work. You can’t actually be deplatformed from the entire internet so this argument is moot.
Miqo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
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