There are lots of watches with screws on the back, like the Casio F91
Comment on Pebble Time 2 has screws
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
Those gonna get jam packed FULL of dead skin and gunk within days.
Watches, generally speaking, have a twist off back plate for that exact reason. And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance (and because it means you need to contact Apple for replacement parts…).
ObviouslyNotBanana@piefed.world 3 days ago
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
I love my Casio for exercising and hiking and the like.
Casios are, by and large, disposable items. They are not meant to be serviced. They are meant to be replaced. And there are countless stories of Casio putting a LOT of threadlock on those screws for that reason. And the higher end Casios have twisting backplates that ARE meant to be repaired/maintained have the same twisting backplates as the rest.
shalafi@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I collect Casios. Most get into my hands with dead batteries. Never had issues fixing them up, so I’m not sure what you mean by “disposable”. All standard screws, pins, etc. ?
Wigglesworth@retrolemmy.com 3 days ago
I break mine. Surely everyone else is equally unskilled…
Undaunted@feddit.org 3 days ago
I have a Garmin Fenix 7s. This watch also has torx screws on the back. I wear it day and night for 3-4 years now, even when working in the garden etc. and the screw heads are completely clean. So I don’t think it’s an issue.
njordomir@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Fenix 6 and I’ve never not been able to clean the little bit of dead skin that ends up in the screws with the tip of a pine needle or an unfolded paperclip.
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you’re not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you’re gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
And smart watches tend to add glue because it is more reliable than rubber gaskets for water resistance
Debatable. Some car’s waterpump rely on rubber o-ring to seal up the cooling system, and those run at around 12/16psi and in high heat constantly while car is in working condition, and it can last for years before it leak. Rubber o ring also played an important role in sealing International Space Station. It’s the quality of the rubber o ring that is important, it can easily pass ipx7 or even ipx8 rating if the casing is properly designed, and lasted longer than the battery would if quality o-ring is used. My guess is glue is often used because it’s cheaper, as you can apply it in any shape you wanted, instead of having to manufacture a shape that fit the use case.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
The ISS (and most engines) also kind of need to be field maintainable. Having to transport a maneuvering thruster back to JPL every few years is obviously a no go.
But also? O-rings (and many kinds of press fits and gaskets) ARE more “single use” than not. That… almost never happens.
Its similar to those wax rings for toilets. Anyone who has ever had to remove/replace a toilet will tell you: Get the actual wax rings because ANY kind of leakage is just hell. But… anyone who has ever actually had to install/replace a toilet will tell you to spend like 5x as much (so… 20 bucks instead of 4) for one of those rubber+wax rings. Technically that is ALSO single use/attempt only but… you actually get a few tries before you need to replace it and find a new helper. You’re going to regret it in 5-10 years when you realize the seal wasn’t great and that smell that wouldn’t go away is a slow leak of piss and shit gas but… it took you five minutes instead of fifty as you kept having to lift the toilet back up to replace the ring.
I feels like all these is really non-issue for dailly user, you’re not gonna open the stuff up every week, most likely you’re gonna need to do it once in a year or two to change some part. If you have any skill repairing stuff, cleaning it up is just a matter of having a toothbrush and some toothpick to clean up the gunk before doing the work, and you will already own a set of driver.
My issue is that it just doesn’t make any sense from an engineering perspective.
Yes, the vast majority of owners will never open their watches up. Hell, they will buy a new smartwatch LONG before they would need to. Like most “right to repair” style topics, we are really talking a very small subset of power users and repair shops.
But what does this get you over the industry/artisan standard? You need one less tool… except now you need a toothpick/brush to properly clean those screw heads. Arguably you always needed one since you SHOULD be deep cleaning your watch before any maintenance, but you technically don’t need one to remove a backplate. And while you probably COULD unscrew without cleaning, you are drastically increasing the likelihood of deforming the screw head and/or outright stripping it.
At best it is a sidegrade. But just look at some of the more… reddit-y responses to this. It is marketing influenced design. People think “screws? I can fix that!” and want to Believe in it.
And, generally speaking, I REALLY dislike stuff like this because it inevitably leads to “enshittification” where things get worse for everyone.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 days ago
True, but it shouldn’t be a huge deal to clean them up once every few years.
XeroxCool@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Everyone hates Japanese Philips screws until they learn there’s Japanese Philips screw drivers. Decades of stripped motorcycle screws because the angle is different.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I’ve got a Timex Expedition that I’ve had since high school. That means I bought it some time during the early Triassic. Its stainless steel backplate is held on with four Phillips screws and I have never in many decades had any problems undoing them when I need to replace the battery every six years or so. It remains resolutely waterproof. I know this because it lives outside rather frequently: at the moment I have it stuck to the gauge cluster on one of my motorcycles with Velcro.
PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I think it depends on screw design. GShock also have screws and they just don’t get dirty enough that you couldn’t unscrew them.
bring back screwsdb2@lemmy.world 3 days ago
ECX?
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
Yep, torx or allen (around 1mm it’s just as good).
andyburke@fedia.io 3 days ago
Doesn't a little solvent and some gentle brushing usually clear this issue up?
The benefits for simple access through simple mechanisms, for me, is worth this bit of work.
But everyone clearly has different requirements. 🤷♂️
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
Go look at how watches are actually disassembled.
You basically need something to twist it off (magnet, friction, a dedicated tool, or honestly just two properly sized prybars) and then you are set.
This is just yet another case of a tech company “disrupting” because they can’t be bothered to look at what the actual state of the art is and realize there is no point.
andyburke@fedia.io 3 days ago
I understand, and don't have any of those tools to hand.
It sounds like this is not a watch for you.
ripcord@lemmy.world 3 days ago
They just like complaining
tofubl@discuss.tchncs.de 3 days ago
That, or the watchmakers of old didn’t have to worry about wiring actuators, speakers, and heart rate monitors on the back plate. Or is that against nature and shouldn’t be done in the first place anyway?
For what it’s worth, my F91W has Philips screws on the back plate exactly like this and I never had a problem, and I’ve taken it apart more than a few times (it’s a Sensor Watch!)