Comment on Did it really used to be common for guys to go to a bar every night like in Cheers or The Simpsons?
litchralee@sh.itjust.works 5 months agoEven with NA (low/non-alcoholic) beverages, it’d be nice to have third places that don’t come with an obligation to spend money.
To be clear, I’m not asking for places that ban spending money, but there are third places like parks (eg NYC Central Park) that are destinations in their own right, but one can also spend money there, such as buying stuff and having a picnic on the grass, or bringing board games and meeting up with friends. Or strolling the grounds astride rental e-bikes. Or free yoga.
Where there’s an open space, people make use of it. But we don’t really have much of that in the USA, that isn’t tied up as a parking lot, an open-space preserve (where people shouldn’t tred upon to protect wildlife), or are beyond reasonable distances (eg BLM land in the middle of Nevada).
Everywhere I’ve lived in the US has had plenty of public parks. As a teenager I’d hang out with my friends in them. Hell I’ve been to big community picnics at a park.
The thing is it’s easier to hang out online all the time and people aren’t looking to socialize at parks when there aren’t events.
The problem is in parks everyone is too spread out to talk to strangers. There needs to be a park with a bar to bring everyone together.
I’d say the qualities of the average American park leaves much to be desired, when compared to NYC Central Park, San Diego’s Balboa Park, or SF’s Presidio.
In suburban areas, the municipal park tends to be a monoculture of grass plus maybe a playground, a parking lot, and if lucky, a usable bathroom. Regional parks are often nicer, with amenities like pickleball courts or a BMX park, though asking for benches (not rocks or concrete verges, but actually bench seats) and shade might be a stretch.
My point is that the USA has fewer parks and public squares than it ought to. I don’t mean just a place to go jogging or to push a stroller along, but a proper third space where people actively spend time and create value at. Where street vendors congregate because that’s also where people congregate. A place that people – voluntarily, not by necessity – would like to be. A destination in its own right, where even tourists will drop by and take in the air, the sights, and the social interactions.
Meanwhile, some parts of the USA actively sabotage their parks, replacing normal park furniture with versions that are actively hostile to homeless people, while alienating anyone that just wants an armrest as they sit down. Other municipalities spend their Parks & Rec funds on the bare minimum of parks, lots that are impractically tiny. Why? Because a public park can be used to exclude registered sex offenders from a neighborhood, leading to the ludicrous situation where whole cities are an exclusion zone. Regardless of one’s position on how to punish sex offenses, the denial of housing and basic existence is, at best, counterproductive.
So I reiterate: the USA might have a good quantity of parks, but not exactly good quality of parks. People will socialize online unless they are given actual options to socialize elsewhere. And IRL options would build value locally, whereas online communities only accrue to the benefit of the platforms (eg Facebook, WhatsApp) they run on.
Church
People downvote, but you’re not wrong and it’s probably the most common example in rural areas
It’s just an example- I’m not saying it’s the only alternative. Although the declining church attendance possibly causes people to seek third places (although I believe the declining church attendance is that it’s more socially acceptable to be a non believer these days. Would rather if someone come to Church that they’d be at least open to believing)
Even if you find one where there isn’t an emphasis on tithes or donation, that’s not exactly a space set up for public socializing. It’s a private space, used by a dedicated and defined group, for socializing within that group. Outsiders may be welcome, but they’re only welcome within that structure.
Depends, lots of churches welcome lay members of the community to the ancillary activities they organise. Catholic churches in my experience are much more embedded in their communities in southern europe regardless of the status of the people participating. My father has been lapsed for 40+ years, never shows up for church and doesn’t participate in any of the religious aspects but he still runs arts and crafts workshops in the parish buildings, for the local kids whether they’re part of the congregation or not.
We need church without religion
That’s like a car without wheels
We have those, they’re called boats.
Depending on the community near you, Unitarian Universalists sometimes have basically that. I’ve been an atheist since I was four, but I have no problem with other people being religious and it was perfect for me. If you’re the type to be annoyed by people talking about the universe in a way that suggests the supernatural, you might not want to deal with even the UU’s very mild language. When I went as a kid, we learned about volcanoes in Sunday School, as a gauge for how religious they are.
Or if you want evil church without religion, can I interest you in crossfit?
I jokingly asked my wife if she’d go to basically church but reading from Marx instead and despite neither of us being marxists it actually sounded like something we’d go to
But also seriously look into if you have a local community center or library and what events they host. Stuff like that often struggles to find attendees
I do think there’s a special thing about church that is this bigger than yourself experience that you share with your community that just isn’t quite replicated in events like art clubs or whatever, volunteering is probably closer
There are several non religious ethical groups to spend time with.
I tried to get you links but I ran out of time before having to do other responsibilities.
Parks and libraries are really nice. Most other third places seem to want you to spend money, that’s my experience here in northern Europe anyway.
Also, in places with significant winters (including Northern Europe) parks aren’t an option in winter.
Northern Europe seems like the kind of place that would realize this is a problem and invent some kind of community building which was open in the winter and had a shared kitchen, a stock of board games, a court for indoor sports, etc. That’s certainly not going to happen in the US.
In Northern Europe, that’s called a library.
The one in Helsinki has board games, media stations for watching films or listening to music, gaming consoles, PCs with design and CAD software, VR rooms, 3D printers and other fabrication machines, conference rooms, study rooms, workshops for fixing things, recording and photo studios, a shared kitchen, a cinema, a playground…
Oh, and books.
Wow. My local library mostly has books. No board games. No media stations – there are some (old) computers you can use to browse the web, so I suppose you could watch media there, but it’s set up as a desk, not a couch or something. You can borrow some games, but not game consoles, and there’s definitely not a spot to play the games on-site. Definitely no VR rooms. There’s one branch of the library in the city that has 3d printers. One branch that has a “music editing station” with a music keyboard attached to a computer. One branch has a high quality, large format scanner for scanning historic docs. Definitely no kitchen or playground.
The idea still seems to be that libraries are supposed to be quiet places where you can read books or study. Any media is meant to be consumed with headphones on, so obviously no shared listening of any kind. They do loan music, video games and movies, but they’re meant to be brought home. You can borrow a lot of musical instruments, but again, there’s no place to play them on-site because the library is a quiet place for reading or studying.
I think it would take a major mental shift for people here to consider libraries as places where you might do something non-quiet, and/or non-serious. And something like cooking on-site would be seen as completely non-librarylike.
You mean like the YMCA?
Well, definitely not a Christian association.
HubertManne@piefed.social 5 months ago
Are you talking more indoors as there are a lot of outdoor stuff but only the library and churches are indoor stuff I can think of and in the one case you need to keep quiet so not great for socializing and in the other you have to follow wierd precepts or whatnot.