Comment on Google's plan to restrict sideloading on Android has a potential escape hatch for users

• grue@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  The point is, there shouldn’t be a distinction. To make one is to support prejudice against installing software from elsewhere.

  If you use “installing” for stuff from the Google store but any other word for stuff from other sources, you are aiding and abetting Google’s anti-property-rights propaganda.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    there shouldn’t be a distinction.

    There has to be. When 99% of installs come from one location, there needs to be a way to describe that other than “Installing apps from outside the default app store”.

    To make one is to support prejudice against installing software from elsewhere.

    No? It isn’t.

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    • Vespair@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The majority of PC game sales happen via steam but we don’t call games purchased from GOG “sideloaded.”

      There is no necessary reason to make the distinction

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        There is no necessary reason to make the distinction

        There is and I’ve already given it. MS app store doesn’t make up 99% of installations.

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    • choochooMF@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      When 99% of installs come from one location, there needs to be a way to describe that other than “Installing apps from outside the default app store”.

      Y tho. What difference does it make? Its the same thing.

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        It’s simply not the same thing and if you can’t understand how that makes it different, I don’t know how to help you.

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    • yardratianSoma@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The words for distinguishing between apps that come from one trusted location vs others is usually untrusted or unverified apps versus trusted or verified ones. “Installing apps from outside the default app store” converts to, “Installing an untrusted app”.

      It’s not that complicated.

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        “Installing apps from outside the default app store” converts to, “Installing an untrusted app”.

        It doesn’t. It’s not that complicated.

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• BootLoop@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  The same word that I use to when I get software that’s not on the Microsoft Store, the Mac App Store, or whatever distro’s Software GUI when I am using my desktop…

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If the MS Store and Mac App store made up 99% of installs, that might make sense.

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    • ideonek@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Why? That's a perfect example. There is no qualitative difrence between Microsoft Store and Play Store. Why quantitative difference in the market share would make any distinction in the terminology we use around the process?

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I’ve already explained why. I don’t know what more there is to say. If you don’t get it, that’s okay.

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    • BootLoop@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      So when I install an app from Fdroid, it’s only “installing” if lots of other people do it? But if other people don’t use it as much it’s “sideloading”?

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        “lots of other people” was not the words I used.

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• Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  When I install software from the Arch User Repository I still just call it installing, even though it isn’t through the standard path. Everywhere else, you don’t make the distinction. For some reason on phones we’ve come to call it sideloading, even though the software is just software —it doesn’t care where it came from.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Because 99% of people are getting it from the same place…

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    • yardratianSoma@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      even within android, if you attempt to install an apk directly, it doesn’t say “would you like to sideload this application?”, but instead says, “Do you want to install this app?”.

      Even Google’s own OS doesn’t use made up language.

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I don’t know what that’s supposed to prove. Use of the word is not mandatory.

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    • Cethin@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Again, when I install something from the AUR (which is not where most software comes from) it isn’t given a special term. It’s the exact same situation as “sideloading” but we just call it installing. Can you explain what the difference is between them?

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        —99+% are from official repositories

        LOL you just lumped every other repository into one and then excepted the AUR for…reasons?

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• jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  When you install a ‘.exe’ file in Windows, you don’t call it ‘sideloading’, you call it ‘downloading and installing’.

  This is the exact same thing. I download from sites, F-Droid, Obtainium, etc., and install the software that is the file I downloaded. I’m effectively NOT side-anything.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    You might call it that if 99% of software was installed from MS store.

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    • DrDystopia@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      0% of my android software is installed through Google Play. Then what?

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I don’t even know what that’s supposed to mean. We’re not talking about you.

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• EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  The issue people have with making the distinction is that Google is trying to spin the narrative and make side loading seem like a dangerous and bad thing to the average user base who don’t know any better.

  They’re taking umbrage with you agreeing that quantitative usage of a storefront makes something simply installing vs side loading a program. Because it helps Google’s narrative in a way.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I understand exactly what people think the issue is. I don’t understand or agree with any of the logic. Google did not invent the term. Apple did not invent the term. There’s nothing in the term itself to imply anything nefarious. It’s nothing but a word used to describe apps installed from outside the default store. When 99-100% of users are all installing exclusively from the default store, it makes sense to have a term that describes that.

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    • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Installing software without a store was just called installing software.

      Sideloading is when you download from the side, e.g. downloading software from a separate device instead of from the internet or physical media.

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        downloading software from a separate device

        It isn’t.

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    • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Google is twisting the word to justify their purpose of preventing people from installing anything that isn’t from their walled garden. So anything that sounds even close to support for that motive is going to be met with pushback, even if it is a word that existed before Google’s use of it. Google’s implicitly saying that installing something from anywhere other than their store is something nefarious or otherwise bad/risky. Google is trying to perform the same kind of security theatre as the US with the NSA at airports.

      Honestly, it doesn’t matter to me where you install an app from because you’re simply installing it. Whether that’s from Google’s storefront, Apple’s, or somewhere else, you’re installing an app. The circumstances where I’d need a term to specifically say that I’m installing an app from outside the default app store would also be covered by simply saying “I got it from GitHub (or wherever).” It takes the same energy to answer the question of where you got it from regardless of whether you say that you installed it or you side loaded it.

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      • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Google is twisting the word

        How is it being twisted? They’re using it in exactly the way it is intended to be used?

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• track_stick_baboon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Installing software from outside the play store should be called installing software. It’s installing software from the play store what should have a special name, like “gatedloading” for example.

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Installing software from outside the play store should be called installing software

    Good news. It is!

    It’s installing software from the play store what should have a special name, like “gatedloading” for example.

    Make it hap’n Cap’n. You’re still not invalidating the term of “sideloading”.

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• Grazed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  In what way is installing from the play store fundamentally different? Just because it was preloaded on your phone? What if F droid was preloaded on your phone instead? Is it still sideloading? Google’s logic breaks down pretty quickly when you think about it

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• Wrrzag@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  If you need to be that specific, “installing” as in “installing software from outside the play store”

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    We have words for things for a reason.

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    • Wrrzag@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Yet we call people who hold a doctorate “doctors”, and if we need to specify we use terms like “medical doctors” or “doctors in philosophy”.

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    • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Doctor can mean different things to different people.

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• blockheadjt@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Yes, so what do you call it when referring specifically to those apps?

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