Comment on Apple forced to ditch iPhone lightning charger

• BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  They first started using USB c on the macbooks in 2015. There’s no way that it took 8 years to get it ready for the iPhone. In that time they’ve also released several other devices and accessories which have used lightning.

  To me this doesn’t point to a planned gradual shift over to USB c but one that was forced by neccesity on the macbook then by regulation on the iPhone.

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  • June@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The narrative around Lightning was always that they’d keep it for 10 years and then move to something new, Schiller even called it “a modern connector for the next decade” when it was announced, and at the time it was better than anything else on the market.

    No one who’s been paying attention is surprised that Apple switched this year and not next. I’d love to go dig up my years old comments on Reddit about this but like many of us I deleted my whole history. I had hoped they’d advance the timeline and release the 14 with USBC because of the EU regs, but I’m convinced this was the plan because they waited for the lighting to fulfill its 10 year target (just like with the 30 pin connector) and not until the EU regs actually forced them in 2024.

    When the iPad switched to USBC in 2018 it was a foregone conclusion that iPhone would too, and the assumption was always for it to happen in 2023.

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    • 13esq@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      How does it take 5 years to integrate the world’s most popular and standardised connector?

      Call me a cynic, but maybe they just wanted another five years of selling over priced cables and another five years of controlling another part of the “ecosystem”.

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      • anlumo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Apple produces hardware at a scale not imaginable to mortal people. When they want to use a chip in their phone, they just buy up the chip’s factory’s entire production run for the next few years.

        Apple was the only company that had no shortages during the chip troubles of 2020/21/22. That’s because they plan ahead. They have a logistics person at the helm, and it’s very visible.

        All of this naturally leads to ridiculous planning cycles.

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      • June@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I’m saying it was a choice to ride out the full 10 years with lightning, not a limitation. They tooled up for 10 years of lightning and they stuck to the plan.

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  • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • Rootiest@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      as every accessory with a lightning port just became e-waste. I guess Mother Nature didn’t see that.

      I think it’s interesting that you see this as USB-C’s fault.

      If Apple had stuck to a standard connector they would have been on usb-c in a year or two anyway and none of that e-waste would exist.

      Or if they went back on their word and switched to usb-c from lightning after a couple years, there would also be way less Lightning e-waste. What do you think happens to all those Lightning accessories when someone switches from iPhone to a different device?

      Apple’s proprietary Lightning connector is responsible for the e-waste, not USB-C or regulators.

      These regulations will stop companies like Apple making proprietary connectors purely for profit that generate all the e-waste in the first place.

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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      • Petter1@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Lol, a cable is barely e waste. The power Adapter is where the e waste is, and those usb A blocks can easily still be used, even if you only have usb-C cables lying around. For very little money, you can buy an Adapter from usb-A to C and you can still use them. I don’t get the eWaste argument on copper cables…

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    • BetaDoggo_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      As far as I know the fastest charging over lightning even now is 20 Watts which is far too slow for a laptop with a large battery. I suspect that they couldn’t use lightning on the macbooks for that reason.

      If their intention was to limit waste then they wouldn’t have continued to produce lightning accessories if the plan was to transition in just a few years

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      • mark3748@geddit.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Laptops were never charged with lightning and it makes zero sense that they ever would. It was never necessary and they received a LOT of hate over using USB-C on the laptops because they were extremely early to the party. The exact same hate was heaped on them when they implemented USB before everyone else.

        You apparently don’t remember (or care) about how they faced a lot of backlash when they moved from the 30-pin to Lightning on iPhone. They promised accessory manufacturers that they wouldn’t change the iPhone port again for at least 10 years, and we are right at that mark. Other products have been transitioning to USB-C in a somewhat logical order. All of the products that charge with lightning now are iPhone accessories and there is little reason to have different charge ports on products that are meant to be used together.

        The only argument that isn’t just pure ignorance seems to boil down to “Apple evil”

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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• Dum@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This law is more than a decade in the making, the only reason it was on Apples roadmap is because of this law.

  The EU doesn’t have to mandate a new connector when something new comes up, it just has to be an open standard, ANY open standard. This is miles better for everyone. And the EU doesn’t force the whole world to adapt their standard, it’s just not economical to produce different versions for different markets, but they are very much allowed to sell whatever to their non EU customers.

  If you really want the lightning adapter back, you can ask one of the many people who soldered a usb-c connector in an iphone 12/13/14. If one person can do it, I’m pretty sure Apple can, too.

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• Cheez@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Yeah totally planned. That’s why it seems like they’ve just jury rigged a new connector onto the USB 2.0 internals.

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  • ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I know you didn’t mean it that way, but that is actually the best solution from a production side, which Cook is. Just change one line in the process. Instead of a lightning port, it’s a usbc port.

    It’s a phone. I don’t know why everyone wants 40 Gbps. Not that you’ll ever get unless you pony up for a $100 cable.

    With all that said, it was hilarious to see them talk about usb 2 and how 3 is 20x faster because that shit was straight out of 20 years ago.

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    • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I know you’re not the same person they replied to, but this is “arguing out of both sides of your mouth.”

      It can’t be that “Apple carefully plans out everything years in advance so it had to be USB-C anyway due to the difficulty in adapting a new port” and also that “they do a simple one line change in the production run to swap to USB-C” because these two things are diametrically opposed to one another.

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      • ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Never said they carefully planned out usb c. All I said was that changing the physical port is the cheapest and most cost effective way of doing it. No need to change the entire module.

        It’s all right there. So no idea man

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      • Turun@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Hey, maybe the production process and internal documentation is so shit that it does in fact take several years in advance to plan out a simple swap of the connector XD

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    • Graphine@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I think it’s more that USB 2 speeds at the bare minimum are a really trash value for an $800 phone. I get what you mean, as this will push the “pro” consumers who absolutely must have 4K ProRes RAW video transfers to buy the Pro models, but for real. It is shitty from a consumer perspective regardless.

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      • ultratiem@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        You get the same speeds on the 15 as lightning. Same power delivery. The Pro got bumped up to usb 3.0. Nothing ground breaking but fast enough to record video to an external source.

        The rest is the internet being the internet. Not sure why everyone expected TB4 40 Gbps speeds on a phone 🤷‍♂️

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• lustrum@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Give over. They were passive aggressive as fuck in their statements after the EU mandated it.

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  • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I don’t know any reason why switching to USB-C would’ve been on Apple’s roadmap. Controlling the lighting ecosystem is far too valuable for them. Apple’s refusal to switch to the common USB-C is one of the reasons this law exists in it’s current form.

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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    • Rootiest@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I guess if a new/better connector comes along we have to wait for the EU to give everyone permission to move the technology forward?

      The EU is mandating open standards, not specific open standards.

      If a new and better connector comes around they are welcome/encouraged to use it. As long as it’s an open standard and not proprietary e-waste generating junk

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    • lustrum@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Theyre not stupid if you read it before writing about it on Lemmy you’d see they’re required to review regularly with stakeholders to agree and amend requirements ‘in line with scientific and technological progress, consumer convenience and environmental developments’

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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    • lud@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Apple would have implemented USB-C ages ago if they had any intention of ever doing it willingly.

      Everything they make uses USB-C except the iphone which uses lightning and funnily enough they get a substantial cut out of every accessory and cable sale.

      The EU has a FAQ somewhere addressing this, can’t find it though.

      And calling the EU a regional government is underplaying their power and international influence a LOT.

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• GooseFinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Eh, I don’t know Apple’s intentions but this specific design change isn’t that complicated. The lightning port still uses the USB protocol so the firmware will be the same or very similar. The supporting electronics also wouldn’t change much, but at most they’d omit/add a few small passives and slightly reroute that part of the circuit to make things fit together. They’d also have to lock down a large production run of USB ports, but any manufacturer would accommodate a customer as large as Apple. They’d need to test fit it with the new phone chassis but that’s relatively simple as well. Regulatory certification would also be smooth sailing for a change this simple, since most of what’s changing is simply the form factor.

  I figure it would take two years before customers would see this design change from the moment engineering was assigned it.

  I’m an electrical engineer who works in production if that matters.

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  • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I can corroborate this. They weren’t unprepared, but this wasn’t late warning.

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  • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • CmdrShepard@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I doubt Apple just learned of the pending EU rule 12 months ago as it was passed.

      The alternative is to take a gamble that it won’t be approved and then be stuck with phones that weren’t in compliance (ignoring the 24 month grace period) and having the development clock start immediately for future models. I’m sure they saw which way the winds were blowing, knew they had no populist counter argument opposing the change, and decided it was in their best interest to join literally every other manufacturer on the planet in using a standard port.

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    • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You know how many fucking lawyers they have? They were well-prepared.

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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    • Rootiest@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Could they?

      Yeah probably. USB-C connectors are ubiquitous, I’m certain they could acquire the necessary components in short notice if they had to. From my understanding they essentially did just swap the connector and kept the same USB2.0 controller.

      Did they?

      I doubt it, they had plenty of notice this was coming and were likely already preparing for it.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if the second USB-C iPhone release gets a modern controller with USB 3.2 or even 4, and Apple talks it up like they have single-handedly made USB-C fast all by theirselves (and imply that other mobile devices haven’t had the same for far longer)

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      • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        [deleted]

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    • GooseFinger@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s really hard to say without being personally involved. Two years is a very comfortable amount of time to implement that specific change. The biggest hurdle is passing regulatory testing early enough to begin manufacturing in time to build a large enough stockpile before release. If they really pushed it and threw enough people at it, manufacturing could begin as little as 6 months after starting. But that’s a very risky timeline because about a million things will still go wrong all throughout the process, and “simple” design changes like this are never, ever simple.

      I’m impressed if they began production one year after deciding to make the change. The EU directive might’ve been approved roughly a year ago, but Apple might’ve seen writing on the wall and started earlier too. Regardless of context, this is definitely not a >2-3 year process though.

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  • lorez@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Law was approved in 2022.

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• fushuan@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Oh man you have not followed all of this progress have you? the EU has been pushing for this for a long time now, if this was their planall along Apple could have stated that they planned to do this in the future but that they were waiting for closure of their original connector, but they didn’t, all their communications until this decission was made have been that lightning was not going away. Suddenly, it was their plan all along. It’s… so much like apple to do this and so in line for their fans to eat it up.

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  • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • fushuan@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      itr’s not about sharing their plans publicly, it’s about their intent being 180 of what they say now. When this was being worked on in the EU, Apple was pretty clearly against it. If their plan was to do it anyway them opposing the forced change would make no sense.

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• moitoi@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Are people astroturfing here? Seriously? It may be one of the worst place for that, and it looks like a very bad troll.

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• Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If they were going to switch anyway, they wouldn’t have struggled until the EU had to make regulations around it.

  Regulations means the market can’t regulate itself. The market in this case being Apple.

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• macrocephalic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think they wanted to go to usb-c (as that’s what all their other products use) but they didn’t want to face the backlash from customers when “all their cables and docks had to be changed again”. Luckily for apple the EU gave them a fall guy.

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  • Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If that was the case apple wouldn’t talk so openly about how that’s bad for the consumer. They wanted to keep Lightning since they want to control the iPhone accessory ecosystem.

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    • macrocephalic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Of course they would, “I’m sorry that all your accessories no longer work guys, it was all the EU’s fault”.

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      • Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It probably depends on the consumer. Most (older) people I know are always irritated which cable they actually need, so it’s great to just be able to give them one with USB C.

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• cousinofjah@twit.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I'm sure the push for non proprietary standards before the latest EU rules had some part to play as well

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• lorez@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  They had until the beginning of 2024, that is by 2024 USB C had to be the standard, leaving Apple no choice with Iphones introduced in 2023’s fall.

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  • bob_wiley@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • lorez@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You’re right. I stand corrected.

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