Comment on Why is the manosphere on the rise? UN Women sounds the alarm over online misogyny

• SupaTuba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  And what about the women in that same boat? I’m confused by your argument

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  • doingthestuff@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    If a woman is going homeless there are resources. If it’s a man there’s almost nothing. I work serving the unhoused.

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    • SupaTuba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Having been homeless before, the resources were not different for me or my partner, male, at the time. Separate sleeping quarters obviously. But the same exact resources.

      Genuinely what are you talking about…Where is this?

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      • doingthestuff@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Ohio. Cincinnati, specifically. It’s not 100 to 0 women resources to men, it’s more like 55 to 5. There are some cold weather shelters for men, and places to eat, but mostly there are zero beds unless you’re willing to sign up for a drug testing program, and even then there are costs and limited spaces. There are quite a few women’s shelters in the area.

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      • Breezy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I had to do community service in Tennessee, i chose to help feed the homeless at a soup kitchen, anyone could eat there, but there were only permanent beds for women. It was nice they fed the men too but thinking back, where did they go at night?

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  • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Exactly…that’s been the status quo for young white men only. People of color and women have been getting the shit end of the stick the whole time.

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  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I’d suggest you read the entire post.

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    • SupaTuba@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I did and it seems to have gotten even more off track and deeply into this magical idea that women and other minorities (not sure why they were brought into it) somehow have easier lives?

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      • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Thank you for reading it.

        There are two factors here in the US that correlate significantly with a person’s lifetime earnings potential: their zip code of birth and attainment of a college degree. It’s exceedingly significant (in a positive way) that women constitute the majority in college enrollment. I think that’s a good thing, but it also demonstrates inequality.

        I want to see policies here that mirror those in more progressive European countries: Free college, a federally-mandated living wage that adjusts with inflation, and universal health care. I also want to see universities’ federal funding tied to expansion of enrollment rates, as there are many that keep them artificially low and yet still raise tuition rates every year. These benefits should target low-income communities without regard to race or gender.

        In short, I want to see the economic ship lifted for the poor, and that’s how it should be done.

        Most young people, and in particular young men, have three choices when entering adulthood: Work for sub-standard wages and struggle alone and/or live with their parents, join the military, or take on permanent debt on the hope of a college degree and an elevated life.

        Rampant misogyny has spread because people who consider themselves progressive have ignored these economic calamities and right-wingers have, conversely, highlighted those inequalities, created communities for young men, and gotten rich in the process. Currently the functional unemployment rate in the United States is 25%.

        The solution, is creating an economy where prosperity is distributed among a more diverse population of people.

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• RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  You’ve got a generation of young men who did what they were supposed to culturally: went to school, got good grades, went to college, never broke any laws, and their choices in life are permanent debt and struggling to afford a roach-infested studio apartment, living with their parents, or joining the military to survive. Here in the United States minimum wage won’t even buy you a cup of coffee in large swaths of the country.

  And? Why should they be special? You’re arguing that because young men were given special status before we should bend over backwards by sacrificing others to their success? Women should continue to be underpaid, undervalued, treated as secondary to men’s success? Nevermind the barriers to any sort of professional and societal success as a woman to begin with.

  What social contract? Again, the one that puts male wants and needs ahead of others?

  That is what you’re arguing, no?

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  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    No, this is a misrepresentation of my argument.

    From the 70’s to a few months ago, governments have made it a fundamental priority to elevate women and minorities, and it’s worked. (Go look at the demographics of college enrollment, at least here in the US, if you don’t believe me.)

    I’m arguing that to fix misogyny you have to fix the fundamental economic crises affecting young people.

    But I appreciate that you were very quick to demonstrate the point I made about the fashionability of blaming young men and pretending these problems simply don’t exist.

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    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Way to misrepresent my argument. Thanks for the downvotes without trying to have a discussion.

      My opinion is that society in general has elevated men above others. That is still mostly true, from entertainment to employment. Yes, there is no argument that there has been effort, more or less to offer others some of the same benefits men get, but it’s still token in many ways.

      Now pay attention, I said society, I did not blame men for this (though they had a hand by aiding and abetting the status quo), there’s an huge cultural momentum behind male over-representation.

      As far as the economy, a nebulous “we need to fix it” is gesturing nebulously at an economy that effects everyone, but it’s hard to take you seriously when you only discuss the economy needing to be fixed in the context dealing only with young men.

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      • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Respectfully, your hostile and reactionary tone demonstrated quite well that you had no intention of discussing things in a rational manner. You toss around terms like ‘redpill’ like they’re Halloween candy, and it demonstrates that even having the discussion is enough to set off your temper. I even gave you an example of the imbalance in economic opportunity favoring women and minorities, and you just ignored it.

        And that’s fine.

        Be angry, but the least you could do is try to be productive.

        The problem is the systemic impoverishment of young men is the root cause of all this, and that is what needs to be fixed if you want to fix misogyny.

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      • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I can’t believe how much shit you are getting while having perfectly valid and rational claims. The fact this fucking chode is claiming your being reactionary while he froths at the mouth with accusations nof misandry is making me feel insane.

        You are being too kind, but I will use the privilege reserved for middle aged man to fucking yell at emotional little boys throwing tantrums.

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    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      From the 70’s to a few months ago, governments have made it a fundamental priority to elevate women and minorities, and it’s worked. (Go look at the demographics of college enrollment, at least here in the US, if you don’t believe me.)

      And when exactly did those college enrollment demographics change? Oh yeah, the moment college degrees became worthless. White men are choosing not to go to college, they aren’t being forced, were not running out of colleges.

      I’m arguing that to fix misogyny you have to fix the fundamental economic crises affecting young people

      Well, you’re not just saying that… If we were to say start a program to fix the economic crisis that is effecting the youth, how would you go about doing that? Oh by targeting the most disadvantaged demographics…oh no, that would be…DEI.

      blaming young men and pretending these problems simply don’t exist.

      You are the one pretending as if this was only a problem for young white men. You’re just taking your licks for the first time and being a baby about it.

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  • why0y@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Your argument and vitriole is a nice example of weaponized self-righteousness. You think because you’re aware of a class of people that has a disadvantage in labor, that makes your opinion on that group more valuable than others, and instead of having the conversation about labor or why some men fall prey to bullshit, because of vitriole like this that serves only to alienate, you’re playing right into the hands of people who divide labor and reap profits.

    Instead of stating anything at all respectfully and with a level head, you’re shoving things down someone’s throat (LMAO) for having something to say about what misogyny is to a group of people (some men) that understand where misogyny comes from, how young men internalize misogyny and then go into management to perpetuate it, and how’s it’s used in terms of capital markets to sell vibes to people (men and women) that feel attacked by a real issue.

    People like you are a dime a dozen.

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    • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I think this person sees someone pointing out the problems facing young men and automatically thinks ‘incel’. It can be disorienting to see people who don’t hate women advocating for young men.

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    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That’s not what I said. That’s not what I said at all. And “falling for bullshit” was encompassed by the premise that men have been told since forever that they are special, not necessarily directly but often indirectly by omitting the difficulties others face. Of course you’d make up some redpill crap that even discussing the outgroups that somehow the act places them above men’s issues. But hey, whatever smug rationalizations you’d prefer for your narrative instead of discussing the substance of what was written.

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    • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Your argument and vitriole is a nice example of weaponized self-righteousness. You think because you’re aware of a class of people that has a disadvantage in labor, that makes your opinion on that group more valuable than others, and instead of having the conversation about labor or why some men fall prey to bullshit, because of vitriole like this that serves only to alienate, you’re playing right into the hands of people who divide labor and reap profits.

      Lol, you aren’t accepting their argument because they didn’t say please and thank you?

      You are accepting that women are a more disadvantaged labour class, but are being a prissy little prick because they are upset about it? That’s the softest shit I’ve ever seen.

      Show some class solidarity for your sisters, the most disadvantaged need to be lifted first. Stop whining like a 4 year old, we men have every advantage in this system compared to our counterparts. Though I’d hardly acknowledge nearly anyone in this thread as a man. Weak shit.

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      • why0y@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

        Solidarity with women is not the same thing as accepting ad hominem and infantilization from a stranger on the Internet. Soak your head.

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      • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Stop whining like a 4 year old, we men have every advantage in this system compared to our counterparts. Though I’d hardly acknowledge nearly anyone in this thread as a man. Weak shit.

        Speaking about toxic masculinity…

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• Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I read the first paragraph, and as a woman, I feel the same! Solidarity!

  Poverty isn’t just for men

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