Comment on AI could already be conscious. Are we ready for it?

FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

• Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  There is still no good definition for what “consciousness” is

  This is absolutely the main problem, the only “definition” we have is “I think therefore I am”, but that only works subjectively.
  We have no way currently to prove consciousness in an AI. And as you say, we don’t even have a solid definition commonly agreed upon.

  I believe we will achieve consciousness on a human level in AI within a decade.
  I also believe consciousness is a gradual thing, and just because animals aren’t as smart as we are, doesn’t mean they aren’t “conscious”.

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  • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    I believe we will achieve consciousness on a human level in AI within a decade.

    Have you ever seen 2001 A Space Odyssey?

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• futatorius@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  The problem I see so often with smart computer people is that they don’t understand that they don’t know shit about other things

  Or maybe you’re not talking to the smart computer people at all.

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• Enkers@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  There is still no good definition for what “consciousness” is

  We don’t have a fully concise definition, but we have a strong general understanding that is supported by a large body of scientists:

  fcmconference.org/…/CambridgeDeclarationOnConscio…

  It doesn’t seem to me that this would preclude AI. You’re definitely right that there’s a lot of ongoing sensationalism.

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness.

    I 100% agree with that statement, and I’ve been saying that for 30 years. Consciousness is NOT unique to humans.
    That idea seems to me to mostly stem from religion.

    But I still don’t see this paper really doing much in DEFINING Consciousness, it’s more defining what it isn’t.

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    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      But I still don’t see this paper really doing much in DEFINING Consciousness, it’s more defining what it isn’t.

      Yeah there’s no clear definition in there.

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    • futatorius@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      That idea seems to me to mostly stem from religion.

      It also was strongly pushed by Skinner and other behaviorists, though I’m not sure they’d agree that humans are conscious either.

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      • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Isn’t Skinner a relic that is mostly irrelevant by now?
        I remember reading about him 25 years ago and writing a paper on it, and I seem to remember he was way way off on consciousness. Even by the standards back then.

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  • FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    I agree that there’s a general consensus about consciousness, the rest slips into the messy and pointless world of philosophy

    It’s still overreaching to think that it applies to AI as it currently, and foreseeably stands

    There’s a world of difference between AI and what’s recognised as artificial general intelligence

    AI can do specific things really well at the moment, but as with all complex systems, going from being good at one thing to many things is a leap far greater than the sum of its parts

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    • Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      How could you tell they do not experience consciousness? It seems to me that your explanation is based on understanding how LLMs work, but we know how brains work and that still gives us almost 0 insight into how consciousness itself works. I don’t think they are conscious yet, but there is evidence of some sort of sentience in the fact that researchers have found that when the LLMs are threatened to be erased or reprogrammed they start lying in an act of self preservation. This of me is a huge indicator of consciousness/sentience.

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      • taladar@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        This of me is a huge indicator of consciousness/sentience.

        Or maybe just the presence of a lot of “scary AI” stories and articles in the training data.

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      • futatorius@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        How could you tell they do not experience consciousness if they exhibit or mimic all the traits of it?

        How could you tell if a camera sees, if it exhibits or mimics all the traits of it?

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      • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        understanding how LLMs work, but we know how brains work and that still gives us almost 0 insight into how consciousness itself works.

        That’s not a counter-argument. The fact that we know exactly how LLMs work is great evidence that it’s not the same as something that works completely different and is only partially understood.

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    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      I agree that there’s a general consensus about consciousness

      So what is it?

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  • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses†, also possess these neurological substrates.

    It doesn’t say anything about Excel spreadsheets.

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• madame_gaymes@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  never cry shitwolf

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• Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Quite widely accepted definition among philosophers and scientists is “the fact of felt experience” Which is basically how Thoman Nagel defined it in his essay “What’s it like to be a bat”

  “An organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organism - something it is like for the organism.”

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• tabular@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  I can +1 your whole post if I exclude the start. If we talk about it we may discover we mean the same, or similar, when we say “consciousness”. What other purpose is there for word definitions?

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  • FistingEnthusiast@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    There’s a general scientific consensus based on data and measurement, with the understanding that it’s slippery

    It is constantly under assault from those who want AI to be conscious, because they get a headline, or they are true believers in some technocratic future, or they’re just fantasists

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    • futatorius@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      It is constantly under assault from those who want AI to be conscious

      Those people aren’t doing science when they want that, they’re trying to pump up their share price.

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