Comment on How I Installed DIY Solar Power and Started Running My House on Batteries
povoq@slrpnk.net@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago To answer these:
Increase in house value due to solar system is likely making this moot.
Small “balcony solar” system work fine for renters.
See 2. and for larger systems 1.
Very unlikely to see a major market unheaval in the next 10 years that would make things cheaper. The real price improvement happend in the last 10 years, and the price difference between LiFePO4 batteries and Sodium-Ion ones will not be large enough for it to matter in small systems.
Respectfully, you are trying to generalize real estate based on your local market. That simply doesn’t work. See my other comment on balcony solar for a clear example. Your 4th point is pure speculation with no argument backing it.
I’m not saying solar isn’t viable. Just using my experience in mortgage financing to add more context to the conversation.
povoq@slrpnk.net@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago Sure, if balcony solar isn’t legal in your place, that is an issue, but more and more places make it legal recently.
As for the realestate market, sure there are conservative realtors that currently undervalue solar systems, but people aren’t stupid. If it makes economic sense to have them in the first place, then most buyers will also make the same calculation and be willing to pay extra, because in the end they will save money compared to a house without solar.
Legalizing it would mean aligning it with the electrical code and running it through the breaker box which introduces prohibitive installation costs. It’s a safety issue, not just politics.
conservative realtors
Again respectfully, you are applying reasoning to real estate that simply does play out that way. Look up the first 3 rules of real estate. There is no substance for me to refute what you are saying because it is fundamentally anecdotal conjecture.
people aren’t stupid. If it makes economic sense
I gotta walk away from this convo bro. The biggest flaw with economic theory in general is that it assumes people make rational decisions.
in the end they will save money compared to a house without solar.
I’m not saying they won’t. I’m saying that the context where that happens doesn’t align with many peoples financial objectives and local real estate markets.
wyldrstallyns@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago Seemingly, the more rational voice in this subthread/convo, could you lend some insight on “balcony” solar solutions that don’t require a balcony? 😅
Regarding 1, perhaps you are the one trying to generalize your local market to everywhere else?
See:
Arizona, USA:
Soak up the sun: Impact of solar energy systems on residential home values in Arizona
In particular, properties with electricity-generating solar panels enjoy an average premium of approximately $45,000 (15% of medium home value) and transaction price premium of $28,000 (17% of medium home sales price).
California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Oregon - USA:
Solar at High Noon: Solar Home Premiums in a Rapidly Maturing Market:
We find clear evidence that solar systems are correlated with higher selling prices if those systems are owned by the homeowner (HO). Alternatively, we find no value or slightly lower values associated with non-owned panels
Southport, Australia:
House price premium associated with residential solar photovoltaics and the effect from feed-in tariffs: A case study of Southport in Queensland, Australia
Using the hedonic approach, the study found that the gross premium was 4.3% of the average house price; the average net premium (exclusive of the PV installation cost) was 21,403 AUD when the FiT was at 44 cents/kWh; when the FiT dropped to 8 cents/kWh, the gross premium fell to 2.4%, and the average net premium dropped to 5600 AUD. The study shows that a solar PV house does enjoy a premium in terms of property value and indicates that a higher solar rebate and subsidy leads to a higher premium
If energy efficiency increases by 100 kWh/m2a, prices increase by 6.9% on average […] there is evidence that about 98% of future energy cost savings are already reflected in a higher housing value under myopic expectations regarding future energy prices.
Italy:
The Market Price Premium for Residential PV Plants
Our results show that individuals are willing to pay an additional price for a solar home, and the average market price premium is equal to 2.69% for monocrystalline PV plants and equal to 3.08% for polycrystalline PV plants respectively.
UK:
Returns to solar panels in the housing market: A meta learner approach
Our results point to a selling price premium above 6% (range between 6.1% to 7.1% depending on the meta-learner) associated with solar panels. Considering that the average selling price is £230,536 in our sample, this corresponds to an additional £14,062 to £16,368 selling price premium for houses with solar panels.
So to do an accurate property value assesment (what you’re doing) you’d need to provide at least 5 examples from each of those regions, only including comparable properties.
I’m not saying solar doesn’t improve property value.
I’m saying you cannot take one example and apply it to an entire market. Which you just did x6.
So to do an accurate property value assesment (what you’re doing) you’d need to provide at least 5 examples from each of those regions, only including comparable properties. In other words you need to isolate that it was the solar panels and not a litany of other potential factors.
Exactly, and all studies take that into account and use the same hedonic price models which most appraisals rely on.
Apologies for not providing links to some of those locked papers, as Anna’s Archive is down right now, otherwise you could also dive further into their methodologies
I’m saying you cannot take one example and apply it to an entire market. Which you just did x6.
Which is not the case with these studies, as explained above, so once again, perhaps you are the one trying to generalize your local market to everywhere else?
In Canada our electric code requires everything be connected to the breaker box so that electricians can work safely knowing there is no current in the building.
if a panel is plugged into the existing house circuits, shutting off the main breaker will shut off the current.
Increase in house value due to solar system is likely making this moot.
don’t buy this bullshit. has no effect on value, and likely has a negative impact as many DIY systems are hacks.
SteveKLord@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago Appreciate your passion and input but try to remain as constructive and kind as possible as calling another person’s informed opinions “bullshit” may not be appreciated. Thanks.
povoq@slrpnk.net@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago Today a DIY system usually means a fully integrated system from a single Chinese supplier: hybrid inverter, BMS and batteries together. That is no hack, and no major difference (other than price) from what a professional company installs.
Having such a system absolutely raises the price of the house sold. Maybe not a full cost recovery, but enough to not make it a total loss if you end up selling before the usual return of investment period.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
#1 absolutely is not accurate. My last house had a $40k solar system installed and it maybe raised my home value by $10k per my appraiser. I still thought it was fine because I had intended to live there forever. I ended up moving four years later :(
Sounds like you paid 40k for a system that’s worth around 10k. That absolutely happens with some companies that do the full installation, but it is a total rip off.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The system was worth more than $10k (it was the largest allowed by law), but a good chunk of the cost was definitely the installation and 20 years full warranty. Luckily I was able to transfer that to the new owner. I have been specifically told that essentially all improvements you can do to a home won’t reflect the their cost in the sell value for the most part. You’re lucky to get 25% in most cases, solar is actually better than most things because it is fairly universally desired. Some things do better than other regionally, e.g. in ground pools can get most of their value in FL apparently as long as you don’t go overboard on costs.
Yeah that warranty…
Anyways, solar is a bit unique in that regard, as it isn’t just an general improvement, but actively pays for itself. Heatpumps also fall in that category. Most people realize that if they get such a system for cheap that is actually a discount on the home price and adjust their expectations accordingly. Of course I agree with you that it likely isn’t going to increase the value beyond what it cost to install.