Comment on Norway on track to be first to go all-electric

surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

• AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  EV’s simply can’t perform in extreme cold,

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  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So what’s the secret sauce? What profound technological steps forward have they made?

    Or are they just heating up the battery, and eating further into the already severely impacted battery life?

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    • endeavor@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Secret sauce is Norway gets money the same place Saudi Arabia does: gas and oil. They have endless resource to whitewash themselves and seem green.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m not an engineer. I’m pointing out that the real world is proving that EVs can work just fine in the cold, so your assertion that they can’t doesn’t hold any water. This was a recent article of interest, though.

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      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Read over what you just wrote, and think about it for a second. If they have to be heated up to function, it supports my assertion that they do not function in extreme cold.

        That 12% is not insignificant, and that’s just for the piece to keep the battery at operating temperature. The battery’s capacity and performance will also be severely impacted on top of that, even with it warmed up. These inefficiencies and workarounds add up to the point that they eclipse the inefficiencies in hydrogen production, as the hydrogen is not impacted by any such issues at the point of use.

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• sj_zero ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Well, one thing to keep in mind is that most people haven't been buying cars.

  My car is starting to get older, and my plan right now is to continue maintaining it because compared to the cost of replacing it the cost of keeping it is so much lower. And I'm not doing that bad. Most households are doing a lot worse than I am, and so they're probably looking at the astronomical prices of vehicles post covid and making the completely reasonable decision not to get anything.

  So it's easy for 90% of the vehicles sold to be electric because most of the vehicles being sold are luxury items for the rich rather than things that individuals need to live day to day.
• Wanderer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think the only logical conclusion would be EV actually work better in the cold than what you have been told. Maybe that’s the same for charging stations or maybe Norway builds to a standard that fits their climate and doesn’t cut corners.

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  • Bronzie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A charger that doesn’t work when EV’s need them the most is a terrible bussiness idea when people pay per kW/h !

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  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s not just what I’ve been told. I’ve personally experienced the issues, as have thousands of others dealing with EV extreme cold problems the past couple of weeks in the eastern US.

    scientificamerican.com/…/electric-vehicles-arent-…

    If anyone has any further info, I’d love to find out what Norway could possibly be doing to address a fundamental issue with the technology.

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    • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It could be as simple as the equivalent of a “block heater” that you would use on a ICE in a cold climate. These are not new technologies, many use these simple devices for cars in places where it gets cold, and I can’t imagine installing a correctly engineered device into the battery coolant system would pose much of a problem. Automatically turn on at a predetermined departure time or below a certain temperature while charging.

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      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah, most of what I’ve seen is just heating the battery. Which is also dramatically reducing the efficiency.

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    • Wanderer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      electric vehicle (EV) drivers to wait in line for hours at charging stations last month; some even found themselves stranded when their battery died while they waited in the queues.

      I’m sure “some” ICE cars have also ran out of fuel while queueing, seems like a bit of a nothing statement. More stations are needed and range does get lower in colder conditions that is known. Waiting until you have 30 miles left when you know electric cars lose 15% of range isn’t smart.

      Norway does winter testing on their vehicles and I’m sure people ask other people about car performance.

      www.naf.no/elbil/…/ev-range-and-charge-test

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    • velxundussa@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      My own prejudice against hydrogen is around manufacturing.

      Most of the world current hydrogen made isn’t green at all, and the message is “we’ll figure it out once demand is up”

      And the companies pushing the most for hydrogen are petrol companies.

      I’m not a chemist, but it doesn’t seem to add up to me.

      I say that as an EV owner living in Canada. I need to use a fast charge station about 4 times a year due to cold related battery issues, and all of those time are because of extended road trips.

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      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        It’s not impossible to produce hydrogen in an environmentally friendly way. We just need to further increase efficiency, and move the energy source to renewables and nuclear to power the electrolysis. The EV charging stations have the same issue, often being powered fossil fuel plants.

        But it is impossible to manufacture EV batteries in an environmentally friendly way. We’re just expected to accept it.

        Plus the performance of EV’s vs hydrogen always uses data gathered in ideal conditions, but hydrogen is leaps and bounds more efficient in extreme weather. We need to be highlighting that, as climate change begins to make extreme conditions the norm and ideal conditions disappear.

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