Comment on Norway on track to be first to go all-electric

• sprack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  The loss of efficiency in an ICE is roughly 15% in the cold as well.

  There are enormous materials issues with storing and transporting hydrogen that don’t scale well

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  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Why would they need to be scaled? Hydrogen is abundant in most corners of the globe. It can be farmed on site, as needed.

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• AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

  Read over what you just wrote, and think about it for a second. If they have to be heated up to function, it supports my assertion that they do not function in extreme cold.

  They function at a 12% range loss. That is a far cry from ‘do not function’

  That 12% is not insignificant, and that’s just for the piece to keep the battery at operating temperature.

  No it’s not. It’s total range loss, not battery capacity reduction. The car gets 12% less total range, that’s the final figure taking everything else into account. You seem to have made up your mind about what you wish to support and are dismissing anything else that does not support your PoV.

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  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

    Then don’t heat up the battery, and see if it runs. Won’t work, because EV’s have to heat up the battery to get it working, because they don’t function in extreme cold.

    And while we’re at it, what’s the workaround for the batteries catching fire and exploding in the extreme heat of summer? We need to implement some cooling pumps while we’re at it?

    Or just skip all of the complexity, and use abundant & clean hydrogen.

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    • Bronzie@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      You’re incredibly confident for being so blatantly incorrect.

      We had negative 30 C last winter. I drove my EV to work every single day. When the batteries were cold I had reduced power available, which made no difference at all as it was -30 C and snow everywhere.
      Using the battery also heats it up. Zero pre-heating of the batteries. I can literally watch my available power return while driving normally.

      If batteries wouldn’t work in the extreme cold, they would not be able to turn over the starter on your ICE car either, which it very clearly does….

      You are literally arguing against something close to a million people do in Norway every single day between November and March. Open a map and look how far north we stretch. Oslo is as far north as Vancouver. People live and drive EV’s in Hammerfest.

      So please, just stop. You are dead wrong about batteries/EV’s, but take this chance to learn something new.

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      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        Well we just had snow sweep across the eastern US last week, nowhere near as cold as Norway, and just that was enough to brick the cars and freeze up the charging stations to the point of barely working. So let us know where you all are getting these magic batteries.

        We also had EV’s catching fire in the southern US throughout the summer. Not sure why the anti-hydrogen crowd is dead set on us forcing EV’s into these environments where it’s problematic.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

      Then don’t heat up the battery, and see if it runs. Won’t work, because EV’s have to heat up the battery to get it working, because they don’t function in extreme cold.

      WTF is wrong with your logic process? Why would you remove a key component of the car? Lets take the starter out of ICE vehicles. Oh hey, they don’t function in any temperature at all!

      The point is clear that ICE vehicles work just fine if properly engineered for cold climates.

      And while we’re at it, what’s the workaround for the batteries catching fire and exploding in the extreme heat of summer? We need to implement some cooling pumps while we’re at it?

      Would you like to bring sources to this discussion? Here’s mine.

      1529.9 fires per 100k for ICE vehicles and just 25.1 fires per 100k sales for EVs.

      Oh, were you just pointing to 1-in-a-million incidents as reasons to shelve an entire technology. Tsk.

      abundant & clean hydrogen.

      There’s nothing abundant and clean about them in the current car ecosystem. I’ll grant there’s a possibility of that, but that doesn’t mean much when the competition has already delivered.

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      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨week⁩ ago

        When did I claim they’d work without a starter? You claimed the EV’s work in extreme cold… by heating them up. So they don’t work in extreme cold, which is exactly why they must be heated up.

        We’re not talking about global averages of EV batteries catching fire. We’re talking about the increased risk of them doing so in extreme heat. Since we’re in the middle of climate collapse, and greenhouse gases are continuing to accumulate, more and more areas will be experiencing extreme heat.

        I’m not saying there’s no place for EV’s in cleaning up our planet. But demanding we commit to only EV’s, and just ignore the areas of the planet they can’t perform in, is absolutely asinine. Especially when we have the hydrogen tech ready to roll out.

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