Comment on Solar modules now selling for less than €0.06/W in Europe

Vendul@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

  Europeans demolished their manufacturing sector when they stripped all the wiring out of the walls during the austerity years.

  You can’t blame people for buying foreign when you’ve been defunding domestic infrastructure for over a decade.

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• humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  When panels were 30c/watt, projects at $1/watt in EU and US happened. 70c/watt was spent on labour, copper, support structures, and grid connection equipment. All of those can be locally produced, with possible exception of last item.

  At 6c/watt, that is over 90% of power projects are local economy boosting instead of 70%. It provides cheaper energy that is useful for industrialization and cost of living benefits too. US tariffs on solar are entirely about protecting oil/gas extortion power instead of a $10B solar production industry that needs fairly expensive support.

  Solar imports does not cause energy dependence. You have power for 30+ years with no reliance on continuous fuel supplies. Shoes and apparel is a $450B industry in US. You need new supplies every year, and it makes much more sense to secure supply in that industry for war on the world purposes.

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• Allero@lemmy.today ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It is good, period.

  Local manufacturing is politically advantageous and may employ some people at the same time, but that’s where benefits end.

  Europe didn’t reject Chinese face masks during COVID-19, and Europe shouldn’t reject Chinese solar during a climate emergency.

  Solve that first, and political struggles later.

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  • nexusband@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It’s not only a political struggle. Working conditions are tremendously better in Europe, Environmental Protection as well. Manufacturing photovoltaics takes a huge pile of chemicals that need to be handled properly to not cause any harm to the environment - China neither cares nor has any other incentives to actually do this properly, which is exactly why they are so cheap. Theres also the issue of poor quality, that if you’re manufacturing something that can have a significant impact on the environment, it should “count” and not be waste 10 years later.

    Destroying the environment in one part of the world to “save” a different one due to climate change is just ridiculously stupid and simple minded.

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    • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I see where you’re coming with that, and in principle, some of the points you make I would clearly share under different circumstances.

      But to me, even with the side effects, rapid rollout of green tech (even if its production is not kept to the best standard) beats slow incremental growth with good standards in place, given the urgency with which world requires it. After all, even poorly produced Chinese options very much do offset their footprint compared to the alternatives.

      There are some points for concern, such as the use of lithium ion batteries, for example, but Chinese companies also think ahead and implement alternative options - in case of batteries, they increasingly work with sodium-ion instead.

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    • st0v@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Solar manufacturing is not destroying China’s environment, fossil fuels are. By a massive margin.

      They need to get off that merry go round as quickly as possible. While the efforts they’ve made are incredible it needs to continue to accelerate.

      I wouldn’t say they’ve achieved these prices through subsidies in the way many people think. government support pushed their entire renewable industry ecosystem, western manufacturing went belly up, and now they are reaping the benefits.

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    • RaoulDook@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It seems like China is putting a lot of efforts into becoming environmentally cleaner in the last few years though. I’m hoping that they’ve finally realized that pollution is bad.

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      • ZMoney@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        There’s something called an environmental Kuznets curve that suggests that a population will sacrifice environmental health to industrial degradation in favor of per capita income up to a point, after which they are affluent enough to care, and after this environmental health improves. China seems to be at the inflection point. Image

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    • humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Manufacturing photovoltaics takes a huge pile of chemicals that need to be handled properly to not cause any harm to the environment

      Source for this? Cadmium is exclusive to 1 US manufacturer.

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      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

        The argument is always “solar/wind still use chemicals” and never “this is the net reliance on extractive industry by energy source”.

        That said, general energy conservation is still important. You can’t cut emissions if all your new power just gets funnelled into Grok style AI.

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• surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  You’re either an astroturfer or useful idiot spreading oil lobby talking points.

  Either you believe the climate science or you don’t. If you do, you know that we don’t have time for industry protectionism.

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  • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Do not assume bad faith over anything you disagree with.

    While I disagree with the original statement, hostility never changed anyone’s mind.

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

      hostility never changed anyone’s mind

      Chronic abuse absolutely shapes human perception and behavior.

      In this case, a lot of Lemmy has been so battered down by “China Bad” propaganda that they’ll straight up deny the threat of climate change to justify rejecting Chinese manufactured goods.

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    • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’m not trying to change their mind. I’m trying to expose them.

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      • asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago

        What you’re doing is called “making shit up”. If you have a problem with their talking point then address it, but don’t make shit up about who they are or why they’re saying what they’re saying.

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• SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Yep the EU will be beholden to a dictatorial regime again. Instead placating Putin for gas it will be Xi for solar panels and batteries.

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  • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    At least those items you only need to buy once.

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    • RecluseRamble@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      What? Have you ever had a battery powered device for longer than 2 years?

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      • MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        All of them, plus storage batteries are under much less abuse and are different chemistry that lasts a lot longer.

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• IndustryStandard@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  By providing big subsidies to green energy developement. Something the EU could also have done but refused to. And so they lost their entire lead.

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