Comment on Men Harassed A Woman In A Driverless Waymo, Trapping Her In Traffic

• Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If you legitimately believe your life is in danger, you have the right to escape or defend yourself, even if that means running someone over. This has happened in multiple countries with similar outcomes.

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• Zak@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If I feel threatened in my car, I am not allowed to run over the person

  You are not allowed to run people over merely because you feel threatened.

  You are allowed to use deadly force, in the USA when you reasonably believe that it is necessary to prevent someone from unlawfully killing, causing serious physical injury, or committing a short list of violent felonies. The harassment described in the article probably does not rise to that level, though an ambitious lawyer might try to describe intentionally causing the car to stop as carjacking or kidnapping.

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  • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    probably

    Yeah somehow I don’t think tipping a fedora counts lol

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    • Zak@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s likely the harassers can be prosecuted for false imprisonment, a misdemeanor. It is illegal to use deadly force such as hitting people with cars to prevent/terminate a misdemeanor.

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  • MsPenguinette@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Is there any law in any state that would allow you to kill a 3rd party to escape being killed yourself? (If there were, I’d probably opt for not living in that state)

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    • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Sure, there are some states that let you mag dump through your front door if someone rings the doorbell

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    • tal@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I vaguely remember reading in my criminal law textbook, years back, that murder is one of the few exceptions to the doctrine of necessity, so I don’t think that it’s ever legally-permissible to explicitly kill some random person to save yourself or someone else. IIRC the rationale was that it prevents thing like terrorist groups from coercing someone to do actions for them by threatening someone else.

      That being said, there are obviously points where people are forced to take actions where either one group of people is going to die or another; in ethics, the trolley problem is a well-known example. For a maybe-less-artificial problem, closing hatches in a ship where not everyone is out of a compartment to prevent the ship from going down, say. I don’t know how law applies in the situation of weighing lives; my assumption is that it doesn’t mandate inaction.

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    • NotAnotherLemmyUser@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      What do you mean by “allow you to kill a 3rd party”?

      Like if rioters are breaking into your window and start trying to pull you out through it, then you floor it and kill someone else in the crowd who wasn’t actively breaking into your car?

      This is something that’s going to vary from state to state, but ultimately it will be a case by case decision where a jury will decide if the use of deadly force was reasonable.

      You will be judged based on other’s perception of the events, not based solely whether you yourself thought you were in danger or not.

      So, someone trying to “drive slowly” through a group of protesters would probably be found at fault, while a car that was stuck trying to wait patiently suddenly having a Molotov cocktail thrown on it would be judged differently. Even then they will need to consider whether you could have just gotten out of your car and run.

      reuters.com/…/fact-check-drivers-dont-have-the-ri…

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• GBU_28@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If you are in literal, actual mortal danger you are generally allowed to escape with the goal of escape. Especially relevant where waymo operates.

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• empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The “hitting pedestrians” is an extreme hypothetical, and not one you should particularly get hung up on. But it is one that still has to be considered. Passive security measures only go so far for the passenger.

  Realistically, a car can get out of many situations without hitting hostile pedestrians, such as reversing rapidly and then driving in an opposite travel lane to bypass the blockage. Or hopping a curb and using a sidewalk if it is not occupied (or just blasting the shit out of the horn if it is occupied). All things that waymo’s auto mode cannot and will not do, because it doesn’t have the reasoning to understand when such measures are necessary.

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• nyan@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  And if the panic button is going to call the police, how is that any different from the passenger using their phone to contact police? Seems like extra steps of middlemen and confusion when the passenger could just call once they feel the need.

  Think of it as a backup for the phone in the case where, say, there’s an adult and a kid in the car, the kid has no phone of their own, and the adult loses consciousness with their phone locked. Or the car is being actively jostled by a group of people (say it drove into the middle of an embryonic riot), causing the passenger to drop their phone, whereupon it slides under the seat. Or the phone just runs out of charge or doesn’t survive getting dropped into the passenger’s triple-extra-large fast-food coffee. It won’t be needed 99% of the time, but the other 1% might save someone’s life, and (presuming the car already has a cell modem it in) the cost of adding the feature should be minimal.

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