The day adverts are forced on me is the day I quit using the internet for anything other than gaming. I fucking hate adverts.
Google's trying to DRM the internet, and we have to make sure they fail
Submitted 1 year ago by uthredii@programming.dev to privacyguides@lemmy.one
Comments
ThisIsMyLemmyLogin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Falafels@aussie.zone 1 year ago
I’ve lost interest in multiplayer games too with all the battle passes and loot boxes.
hellfire103@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Homestly, as soon as PeerTube gets more users or someone makes a video sharing platform on Gemini, I’ll be able to completely abandon Google.
I already use CloudTube, but it’s obviously still dependent on YouTube.
SankaraStone@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s time for Firefox and others to sue Google for antitrust. When you’re using your monopoly to force web “standards” (instead of having an independent third party set standards) that cause developers to stop supporting your rival browser is clearly illegal monopoly actions.
nomadjoanne@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Puh. Mozilla is Google’s pet that keeps them out of anti-trust court.
SankaraStone@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Look, if Lemmy, NPR, and PBS can happen, then it’s always possible to fork Firefox (or throw more weight behind the Servo folk who are moving towards developing the Rust web engine towards embedded applications to get it up to speed faster for general web browsing) if Mitchell Baker and search revenue approach to funding Firefox is getting in the way of having a fast, private, and secure browser for everybody.
But enough woah is me and our obstacles are overwhelming on here. In this case, if we do nothing, we get nothing. Especially if you’re right that the Mitchell Bakers of the world are not behind us. I know we at least have an ally in the EFF.
SankaraStone@lemmy.world 1 year ago
P.S. I thought I made my reply to your commment in another thread that I made instead of both yours and my comment being this one. Here’s what I was referring to. The post you were replying to inspired me to look up how to file an antitrust complaint with the US government.
darthfabulous42069@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Let’s just make our own open-source browser then
Gnubyte@lemdit.com 1 year ago
Sigh. Whoever they have working in their DRM department has been an asshole for a long time now.
This is what the third or fourth - minimum - thing like this they’ve tried to pass in a few years? I actually like Google as a product family but every time they do this it hits me right in the “maybe I should reconsider” department. Its also usually met with a hard resounding no from everyone. Maybe its that they have a task force that is paid well to protect their ad interests and recover some sort of deficit they see in their ad product.
I donate to the EFF to fight things like this at a professional level…also good to point out though that its not just google’s fault. If they build a moat for businesses and everyone installs one, that is everyone’s fault.
xeekei@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Have been using Firefox forever basically, with a brief departure when Chrome was fairly new, but later returned.
sil3ntki11@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I end up switching more and more of my stuff away from Google every time something like this comes out.
speaker_hat@lemmy.one 1 year ago
ELI5 please?
Will using Firefox fix it?
CatZoomies@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s a long video with many points and better if you watch it. However, here’s a quick break down of some of the key points, made to be as simple as possible - there’s a lot more technical stuff, but I’ll try to keep it concise and less technical:
- Google owns Chrome (not Chromium), and they dominate the market ever since they won the internet browser wars.
- As an amoral corporation (not evil, simply lacking morals), their business runs on advertisements.
- They’re revealing a new feature called Manifest v3 which is a locked down version of the browser that’s built around what they feel is security and trust.
- Under their proposal for Manivest v3, your browser will have to be “verified” in an attempt to keep you “safe”. Are you a human or a bot? They’re making a more trusted internet with trusted software.
- Companies like Netflix, news web sites, etc. will eat this up and implement the proper protocols to use Manifest v3. To visit your bank’s web site which has this protocol, you’ll need to use Chrome’s browser.
- Using Chrome’s browser, you’ll need to authenticate yourself and become a “trusted” user. With this enabled, you can then visit your bank’s web site.
- If you use an alternative browser that isn’t approved, you won’t be able to use that web site.
- Eventually other corporations will implement these protocols, too, and you’ll be locked out from participating in the internet.
Why is this bad:
- It’s censorship. It’s like your mom and dad grabbing your phone, computer, enabling severe parental controls, giving it back to you, and they get to see and approve what you’re allowed to do and say at any time. Apply that same protocol to your money, too. Want to send money through the internet using PayPal? Even more censorship.
- It buries competition and makes Google even more of a monopoly. We already know Google Search is bad (advertisements, phishing web sites, auto-generated content web sites are always the first results in Google.
- Digital Rights Management. Just a bit north of 20 years ago, when you purchased a digital product, you could own it. Streaming didn’t exist. In an age where “buying” no longer means “owning”, this new protocol will further enforce DRM. Pay for Netflix and want to watch it? You’ll have to be a Trusted User that uses Chrome. Bought a new video game you’re excited to play on Steam? You’ll need to be a Trusted User. Don’t want to stream music through Spotify and instead use something like Bandcamp? To make a purchase at Bandcamp, you’ll need to be a Trusted User. Don’t want to buy something through Bandcamp and instead just download what you already paid for? You guessed right - you’ll need to be a trusted user to even login and reach your downloads. Don’t forget your downloads are hosted on servers that are run by Google and Amazon - you’ll have to be a trusted user in order to download from that server.
Can I use Firefox and stop using any Chromium browser
- Most browsers are Chromium: Chrome, Brave, Ungoogled Chromium to name a few. They will all eventually implement Manifest v3, and if they don’t, they will disappear.
- Firefox is not Chromium, but think about how many users use Firefox now. Google Chrome has the overwhelming market share and has captured users into their platform.
- Because the majority of users use Chrome, corporations have to evolve to adopt Manifest v3: banking web sites, governments, job applications, benefits, healthcare, personal emergency, etc. All of these will be forced to adopt it because that’s where the users are.
- If you use Firefox now and continue to use it, you’ll be safe for several years. For now.
What can we do?
- Right now, you can opt out of using Chrome by using Firefox and other decentralized tools.
- In the not too distant future, there’s not much that you can do. Educating users to switch from Chrome, use Linux, use stock Android (e.g., Graphene OS), will not help.
- Eventually, you will get locked out.
- Write your politicians and hope that some governments will help restrict this rollout. Keep in mind though that some version of this will get passed and approved.
What will happen 20 years from now?
- Humans have tenacity. You can only frustrate humans so much before they break. Take away too many of their freedoms, impose many restrictions, and eventually they will break.
- The trick for all of time, seen throughout history by all our overlords, kings, emperors, etc. is to find a careful balance. Take away “just enough” freedoms. Give them “just enough”. Work them until they’re tired, but don’t let them break. And of course, give them a few handouts here and there, but not enough to make their lives easy.
- Manifest v3 (or its derivative) will be implemented. There’s no doubt about that at all.
- The 99% of the population will continue to use these services because they want to be able to participate: They have to pay bills, access money, access healthcare, use government systems, do education, have entertainment, etc.
- The 99% will continue to use this because they won’t care. So long as they can be happy enough, they will persist.
- Eventually, an infinitesimally small minority will be affected by something. Something will break and cause them to snap, and they will do the only thing that an individual human can do: opt out.
- That small minority will leave, opt out, and refuse to participate in the system. Those clusters will grow at an extremely small amount because they’re able to recognize the whole picture and see that personal freedoms are so restricted. Enter decentralization - the removal of power from centralized powers.
- Those who recognize decentralization will build new platforms, and others will eventually follow. This is why the Fediverse and Bitcoin exist. They recognize the problem of centralization and are full of users who decided to opt out.
- In 30 years when more of the population realizes their freedoms are under attack, they’ll consult the ones who left 10 years previously.
- In 40 years, you might have choice. The trick is to train yourself to see the big picture. You’ll never defeat your overlords - they’re behind tall walls and they control the money. However, you can opt out. You can refuse to participate.
LeaveITtoThePros@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
If I could save up my votes to upvote this 5 or 6 times, I would. Great write-up! I’m “stealing” it (with attribution).
ipkpjersi@lemmy.one 1 year ago
This is a depressing reality but I think it’s likely this will happen. It makes me so mad Google got as big as they did. Someone needs to tear the fuckers down.
SankaraStone@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You wrote all this but you failed to mention that Google’s using it’s monopoly market position to force web “standards” unilaterally (without an independent/conglomerate web specification standards where Google is only one of many voices) that will disadvantage its competitors and force people to leave its competitors.
darthfabulous42069@lemm.ee 1 year ago
So basically, we’re going to have to build a separate internet that rejects this new protocol and allows for alternate browsers. That tactic, combined with piracy and offering everything the big guys charge money for for free, might be enough to draw at least a chunk of the people away from it.
speaker_hat@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Thank you for the informative comment
capr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I thought Brave doesn’t have to implement manifest v3 because they’re a fork. They can just rip it out.
cincinmasukmangkok@lemmy.my.id 1 year ago
We can create a community of people that care about those things & shun people that don’t care
peregus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
At least put a small TL;DR!
CatZoomies@lemmy.world 1 year ago
A quick, non-technical explanation:
- Google is working toward implementing a new protocol in Google Chrome, “Manifest v3”, that will be intrusive and help enforce Digital Rights Management.
- Under the guise of this being safe, secure, and to curb bots, Mv3 will require users to become Trusted by using the Chrome browser.
- Since the majority of users are using Google Chrome, this will heavily influence corporations to adopt this protocol in their service.
- A Trusted user can access Netflix in the browser. If you’re using Firefox or are an untrusted user, you will not be able to access Netflix in your browser.
- This protocol will appear one day in some form, and it will greatly shift the internet and force more users into Google’s ecosystem.
- This will spread to all areas of the internet - Banking web sites, government web sites, healthcare, entertainment, education, etc.
- The internet will become less “free” over time. More censorship, less rights.
See my other comments in this Post for more details.
peregus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
WTF?!!! Monopoly is always a bad thing, we must remember it!
asphaltkooky@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If the last 5 years are any indication, they’ll shelve it on their own within a month.
PublicLewdness@burggit.moe 1 year ago
I don’t use Youtube; Chrome; or Google Search. I use Abrowser which doesn’t play with DRM so I don’t visit those sites. I use Ublock origin; Jshelter; Privacy Badger; and LibReDirect. I did this for years before even coming to this thread. It’s as simple as making choices which support your values. Google and the like will never change to support your values. Just ditch them and change your behavior.
ampdrool@waveform.social 1 year ago
You obviously know your way around technology, but you should be worried about the amount of people who are not tech-savvy and can only rely on what they’re offered. This is especially crucial now since a lot of citizen rights can be exercises over the internet, and sometimes that’s the only way to actually exercise them (Italy has several internet-only public services). So we shouldn’t be talking to a community of tech experts, we should promote easier ways to leave the monopoly and proselytize the layman about them.
hellfire103@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
As Zoanoids* said in Michigan**:
“We’re fucked.”
hellfire103@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
*An indie rock band
**A song on their self-titled album
confetti_8tVST5@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Screw it I’ll try firefox on mobile and on desktop if I like it. Anyone know where I can get the apk w/o google playstore?
bear@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
Fennec on F-Droid is just Firefox minus telemetry and some little proprietary bits. It’s otherwise exactly the same.
confetti_8tVST5@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Alright I’ll look at these forks too I also saw something called mull that looks kinda interesting
joe@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
this is what is the most annoying thing about Firefox, they dont have the apk on their website like like for the desktop versions.
confetti_8tVST5@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah sadly but fennec on fdroid isnt bad at all though I only been using it for a day haha
AllahFucksKids@fedia.io 1 year ago
Your resistance is futile
Your resistance is futile
Lol, but seriously stahp I have shares in Google. Let us just use your private data bby, we won't do anything bad, promise! Lmao
sheemap@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What part of this can be used for DRM? It looks like its just a crypto-graphically provable User-Agent, assuming I’m reading it right. Am I misunderstanding?
m3t00@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I shared my mp3s d/l’d from Gmusic on Drive. about 1500 or so. public link. haven’t looked lately if it still works. if it took off the bandwidth would likely get their attention. I’m sure they at least keep file checksums to use DRM filters on. u/l’d a DVD rip to Ytube and they blocked sharing from there re: copyright. they don’t pay artists much from what I’ve read. can’t easily d/l mp3s from youtube music like the old Gmusic. cds/dvds only last a few years so free backups kept on G servers seems a good use of my free 17Gig
QuazarOmega@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You should be able to avoid getting flagged if you encrypt your files with something like cryptomator.
can’t easily d/l mp3s from youtube music
You can with yt-dlp and any of the GUI frontends based on it. I suggest these:
(Anyone who knows any, feel free to suggest more)
PublicLewdness@burggit.moe 1 year ago
On my desktop/laptop I use Abrowser. On mobile I use Mull. You could say I have been doing my part for years but thanks for joining me.
ultratiem@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There is no ecosystem as mature, polished and integrated as Apple’s. I am all in with them and the way all their devices and services work together is just marvellous.
But the answer to your general question is you will need to go all in on a single company. And TBH, you should. They are all bad to some degree. But cobbling together a pipeline of various manufacturers will always result in a terrible experience, and you’ll be generally paying the same for it anyway.
ultratiem@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There is no ecosystem as mature, polished and integrated as Apple’s. I am all in with them and the way all their devices and services work together is just marvellous.
But the answer to your general question is you will need to go all in on a single company. And TBH, you should. They are all bad to some degree. But cobbling together a pipeline of various manufacturers will always result in a terrible experience, and you’ll be generally paying the same for it anyway.
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 1 year ago
People have been very vocal about this in the issues for that repo. github.com/RupertBenWiser/…/issues?q=is%3Aissue
LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 1 year ago
In every comment thread about the importance of supporting Firefox, there’s always at least one comment claiming Firefox is slow, even while I repeatedly see the data say otherwise.
Anecdotally, I’ve used Firefox, Waterfox, and Librewolf on PC, and none have been slow.
I’ve used Firefox, Firefox Beta, and Fennec on Android, and if anything they seem faster and easier to use than Chrome (and they actually tend to work like an actual internet browser).
I’m not saying these commenters are all Google sockpuppets, but maybe they’re parroting misinformation, or maybe they’re using an Apple OS, where Firefox is basically Safari.
It’s just really perplexing to me.
uthredii@programming.dev 1 year ago
I think it depends on the website. There are some websites where chrome will work better either because chrome works better with certain libraries/technologies or because the developers put more time into optimizing for chrome.
On the other hand firefox might have less bloat around telemetry that gives it an advantage too.
LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Oh absolutely true, and one would probably notice it more if one uses a lot of Google’s services (though Microsoft is even worse in my experience, with nerfing its services if you don’t use Edge), but this still doesn’t explain why just a normal user would proclaim Firefox is “slow as fuck” without anything to support this, and that’s what I’m seeing in nearly every thread that mentions Firefox.
spare_muppet@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you want to online shop or research something to buy, or spend money in some way, Chrome and Google search is superior. If you are looking for information, news, anything not requiring payment, Firehox and duck duck go are the best
dan@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yeah I’ve noticed the same thing. I’ve been deliberately trying to do a bit of Firefox advocacy for a while (cos I honestly believe increasing its userbase is our only chance to avoid google ruining the internet). But yes every time there’s a bunch of people confidently complaining about how bad/slow Firefox is and advocating for brave or chrome.
Initially I thought it was just a bit of historical baggage but it happens very consistently and aggressively so I’ve had the same thought.
argv_minus_one@beehaw.org 1 year ago
Meanwhile, I’ve been using Firefox for ages and have never experienced the problems these people keep complaining about.
There was a brief time when Chrome ran better than Firefox on an old 512MB laptop I had, but Chrome has since become an infamous RAM hog. Firefox is the lightweight one now, and has been for quite a few years.
HorseFD@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Firefox is not “basically Safari” on macOS, that is only true on mobile.
LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 1 year ago
I did not know this, so thanks for the correction
hellfire103@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
On top of that, Firefox was recently found to be faster than Chrome. I’ll try and find the link.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, Google.
XiELEd@kbin.social 1 year ago
Chrome is a memory hog compared to Firefox lol
xcjs@programming.dev 1 year ago
By some metrics, Firefox surpasses Chrome now.
carlytm@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I think some people also just haven’t used Firefox in a while, and it’s gotten better since the last time they used it. I’ve never had issues on Firefox, however I only became a Firefox user a few years ago. Meanwhile my girlfriend insists it’s buggy and slow, but she hasn’t used it in many years.
Quill7513@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I’ve noticed a lot of people not wanting to ever revisit older paradigms. Like when the Reddit protests started a lot of people were adament that going back to forum type software would be a disaster and I felt taken aback. I loved that shit. The only reason I saw to do that with Reddit instead of a dedicated forum was because Reddit already had users that could wander into your community and slowly onramp. Here on the fediverse we get the best of both worlds, but there are people who hate the idea that !news@ttrpg.net and !news@lemmy.world don’t aggregate together even though they might actually be about completely different subject matter because “we don’t want to go back to the phpbb days”
Well y know what? Maybe there are parts of the phpbb days that were worthwhile and good. Maybe hosting dedicated servers that are specifically about something is a positive thing as it makes there be more people excited to host a small part of the internet that people can make use of. Maybe what we needed was the easier on ramping, not the centralizes forums.
takeda@kbin.social 1 year ago
This was true when Chrome first came up, they even made those ridiculous ads, which Opera (before they stopped developing their own engine) was ridiculing: https://youtu.be/ZdirsXNaibo
Firefox after they they rewrote their engine to be multithreaded (I think it was called project electron?) is faster than chrome that is currently very bloated.
What saddens me the most that, while there are ignorant people who don't know better and use what are they familiar with, there are also self proclaimed techno geeks, who are equally ignorant and don't seem to remember the times of Internet Explorer.
LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Tbf we’re in a new generation of techno geeks who weren’t around for a lot of things and lack the full context. I think about that every time a young person chides me for “stealing” from YouTubers or even Google itself by blocking ads.
PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks [bot] 1 year ago
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sab@kbin.social 1 year ago
Worth mentioning that, as much as it pains me to back Apple, Safari is also a good alternative for those it's available for (at least in this regard). It's one of the only browsers other than Firefox not using Chromium. And WebKit, it's renderer, is a pretty badass project.
TenorTheHusky@kbin.social 1 year ago
Chromium and its forks actually all use WebKit as well: https://www.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/displaying-a-web-page-in-chrome/
DrQuint@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We just need to respond with “objectively wrong: <link to some data>” and copy paste it again if the same person replies.
Trapping5341@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Switch from chrome to Firefox about a year ago. Firefox certainly opens faster on my PC but I don’t notice much difference on my android phone.
Vexz@kbin.social 1 year ago
I switched back and forth between Firefox and Chromium based browsers like Brave and Vivaldi. To be fair Firefox felt slow in comparison for a long time but that changed in the last few months. I think since about Firefox v114 I don't feel a difference anymore and that's why I'm using Firefox now. Best is to tell those people to try Firefox again because it recently became faster (in my experience).