Rule 2 Clarifications and New Rule proposal I’ve gotten through (I believe) a

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨curbstickle@anarchist.nexus⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

Rule 2 Clarifications and New Rule proposal

I’ve gotten through (I believe) all the comments in the meta thread. So I want to establish a few things, first being a better definition on spam.

Spam is not “I don’t like this and its a paid product” or “I don’t like this and they used AI/LLMs”.

Spam would generally be considered:

Mass-posting - Posting the exact same post across a bunch of of different communities, rapidly.
Repetitive Content (aka karma farming) - repeatedly submitting old popular content. I’ll note that this is completely irrelevant on lemmy, this was more of a reddit issue due to karma.
Bot Activity / AI Abuse - Using scripts/bots/gen AI to automate posts and comments.
Unsolicited DMs - Mass private messages or chats to users, completely unsolicited

I’d say anything other than that deserves a followup rule, and this definition should go in the sidebar.

Regarding the promotional posts themselves, I think something like the 10% rule makes sense - no more than 10% of the account should be self-promotional material or comments within the community.

I do think it makes sense to include an exception for 100% free/libre open source projects. Partially open projects with a closed (paid) component should be subject to the 10% rule. So what I propose as the rule would be:

Promotional posts require community participation or they will be removed. No more than 10% of your posts or comments may be self-promotional, or your post will be removed. F/LOSS Exception: If your post is about a project that is completely open source & without any paywalls, it will be exempt from this rule.

Questions, comments, clarifications, and harsh criticisms are welcomed in the comments. As a reminder from my intro post, and because of some comments in the other thread, I will mention:

There are people on both sides of the keyboards, so please be respectful of others.

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Mordikan@kbin.earth ⁨48⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
I think 10% self-promotion is a very fair rule. It enforces the idea that if you are going to take from the community that you also give something back.

As someone who is partially self-hosted, I think that will help keep ads from muddying the waters when I'm searching posts for setup suggestions.

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Tolstoy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
Nice to see the changes, but may I ask if tagging could be beneficial?

Surely it would help to sort out self promotion, help requests and informational posts.

Also, since we’re all in the lemmy-bubble, a lot of people may despise vibe-coded projects, at least it looks/feels like it, so it may be worth tagging project with AI code?

I’m maybe narrow-minded, but please enlighten me^^

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- curbstickle_lw@lemmy.world ⁨58⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  I actually do want tagging of some sort, I think its a sensible approach overall. I think its a quick way to identify that your project used AI and people can quickly filter, per your example.
  
  That said, I think that should be a separate item, and I don’t want to inundate with stickies either. That was going to be my next “oh look a mod is annoying us with his opinion again” post, but then we ended up seeing a ton of promo content this week. I’m trying to stick to a mod post every week or two so everyone has a chance to see and respond to things.
  
  That said, if you want to get that discussion ball rolling, feel free to make a meta post about it of course!
  
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  - Tolstoy@lemmy.world ⁨43⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Thanks for your work, time and effort. I also think, it would be better to separate it and first end the discussion about promotions and co, so it could settle before kicking of another round^^
    
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i_stole_ur_taco@lemmy.ca ⁨44⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
I have opinions, but none of them well enough formed to have suggestions on the new rule.

Try it for a while and see if it works! We know this community ain’t shy about sharing when something isn’t working for them!

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non_burglar@lemmy.world ⁨47⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

I do think it makes sense to include an exception for 100% free/libre open source projects.

Here we go again.

Both libre projects and free projects can make money via donation, patreon, or other business models. Allowing them a “vibe check” exception and not closed source or anything in between is propagating this notion that money and open source are mutually exclusive.

I appreciate the effort to establish some rules, but this is further entrenching the Lemmy self-hosting community in a mode where it’s a FOSS-only space, which is both uninclusive and inaccurate.

If what you want is a FOSS-only space for self-hosting, I’d like to know that so I can find or start a similar community where ppl who do use closed source tools can post questions.

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- curbstickle@anarchist.nexus ⁨40⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  If you think this is about what I want, you haven’t been reading any of my comments.
  
  This comes out of what the community commented in the meta thread, with a bit of my own wording on top to meet the requests.
  
  Also
  
  I’d like to know that so I can find or start a similar community where ppl who do use closed source tools can post questions.
  
  That isn’t promotional material and would have nothing to do with this rule, so I’m not sure what you’re driving at here.
  
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  - non_burglar@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Thank for the clarification.
    
    If you think this is about what I want, you haven’t been reading any of my comments.
    
    I have read them, all of them. Your wording “I think it makes sense to…” suggests you’re making a decision. It seems based on community input, but is nonetheless still your decision. As it should be.
    
    I don’t really have an opinion on the 10% rule, I don’t think anyone can help but make that an arbitrary number.
    
    I do, however, think it’s a mistake to lean heavily toward favoring FOSS here because, as I mentioned, there is nothing preventing FOSS applications from making money. Further, it is very difficult to find software that is 100% FOSS through and through.
    
    Ultimately, the line of what is FOSS and what isn’t is what will become a problem.
    
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breadsmasher@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
Appreciate the clarification and expansion!

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