The trouble with England – why rioting in the UK has not spread to Scotland and Wales

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Emperor@feddit.uk⁩ to ⁨unitedkingdom@feddit.uk⁩

https://nation.cymru/feature/the-trouble-with-england-why-rioting-in-the-uk-has-not-spread-to-scotland-and-wales/

The violent unrest that has caused so much damage in the UK has not in fact happened across the UK. It has almost been exclusively confined to England.

True, violent riots also took place in Belfast, Northern Ireland, but, interestingly enough, even there they were largely perpetrated by British loyalists, along with a few far-right extremists from Dublin.

The counter-protestors were seemingly mostly drawn from Northern Ireland’s Catholic community.

At least up until now, Scotland and Wales have remained peaceful. When considering why this is the case, we might look at how the English are positioned within the United Kingdom.

…

After all the mess has been cleared from the streets, it would be advisable for the government and society as a whole, to have a debate about what “England” and “Englishness” stand for in a Union profoundly divided by rising nationalism and in a world where Britannia no longer rules the waves.

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AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Northern Irish Protestant loyalists are essentially Englishman cosplayers. Just look at their Orangeman parades, with their bowler hats and Masonic aprons.

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- mannycalavera@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Englishmen now? Scotland would like their Presbyterians back 😉 .
  
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  - addie@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’d suggest that we do not. How about we split the difference, and drop them off halfway between Belfast and Stranraer, say?
    
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- apis@beehaw.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Nah, they’re nutters with very weird ideas about Britishness, Irishness & everything else, but they no more look to the English for ideas about their own identity & how to manifest it than the English look to NI loyalists as a guide.
  
  If anything they tend to rather despise Englishness, seeing their own culture as the one true, loyal holdout to the Union.
  
  The aprons do seek to emulate Masonic regalia, but the ideals of the Orange Order are entirely contrary to those of Freemasonry, which in any case is not specifically English or even British.
  
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- Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As in, Northern Irish cosplaying English or English cosplaying Northern Irish? If it’s the latter, Northern Ireland is not made up of English planters contrary to popular belief, nor is it in the UK because it was “stolen” by the English
  
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  - AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Northern Irish Protestants playing English, or affecting an exaggerated Englishness to differentiate themselves from the Papists and their ways
    
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- Emperor@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This is very true.
  
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Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
My theory is that a lot of it in Northern Ireland is actually just paramilitaries trying to get what they want. This happened during brexit as well over the sea border. The areas where the rioting happened in Belfast also had big signs saying “THIS AREA NEEDS MORE SOCIAL HOUSING” and suddenly the solution for the riots that the Deputy First Minister comes up with is an agreement for more social housing. Also that random white-owned estate agents being attacked smells fishy to me.

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- AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Paramilitaries are always involved in any trouble & unrest that goes on here. They’re a blight on our communities.
  
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  - Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Aye. Although I think they mainly operate in areas where the policing is less effective. Although it’s probably a chicken and egg scenario - Is the bad policing because the paramilitaries are there? Or are the paramilitaries there because of the bad policing
    
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cRazi_man@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

It therefore seems plausible to suggest that the anomaly of the English – a powerful majority which often perceives itself as overlooked and ignored among the British nations – might play a role in explaining the current wave of protests and riots.

Interesting

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- Emperor@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  I don’t know how credible this makes his opinion.
  
  Because Loughborough is known for it’s sports?
  
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Streamwave@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

One obvious reason the author doesn’t explore is that neither Wales nor Scotland has never experienced mass immigration.

Scotland remains 92.87% white (2022), Wales 94.2%, compared to England at 81% (2021). It therefore doesn’t have the levels of intra- and inter-communal diversity which can provoke the kinds of tensions we’ve seen playing out in the streets of England over recent years, whether in Hindutva-Muslim ethnoreligious violence in Leicester or these anti-Islam and racist riots in recent weeks.

Scotland’s sense of its national identity has therefore not been challenged to the same extent as in England. Nor has a patriotic attitude towards Scottishness been derided as hateful, bigoted or xenophobic, as it has in England. (This sometimes leads to highly funny events, though, like when ScotNats try to claim they were victims of the British Empire.)

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derGottesknecht@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Racism is mostly unrelated to actual immigration. In Germany the east has comparable immigration percentages to Scotland but leads the nation in fascist poll numbers by a huge margin. Economic factors are orders of magnitude more important

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- Glasgow@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Economic factors don’t correlate either. It’s tied directly to mentions in the media.
  
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- Noodle07@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The least they see different people the more they fear them.
  
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Glasgow@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Glasgow is only 88% white and more diverse than many of the towns that rioted.

Town/City	% White Population
Belfast	96.7%
Tamworth	95.3%
Blackpool	94.6%
Plymouth	93.1%
Rotherham	90.7%
Hull	89.7%
Glasgow	88.4%
Liverpool	84.8%
Bristol	78.1%
Manchester	66.3%
Birmingham	57.9%

It also takes on more asylum seekers than any other council, and Scotland as a whole takes on more refugees per capita.

“However, across the whole of the UK, only 1,960 refugees were brought to Britain through the scheme during 2020 and 2021 – meaning Scotland’s share totalled 13 per cent, well above the population share of 8.15 per cent.”

www.gov.scot/publications/…/14/#:~:text=As of 11 ….

“As of 11 July 2022 a total of 21,256 visas have been issued naming a Scottish sponsor – more than 20% of the UK total, and the highest number per head of population in the UK. Scotland is currently providing sanctuary for over 7,000 people, two-thirds of whom applied under the Scottish super sponsor scheme. This exceeds the 3,000 the Scottish Government committed to welcome when the scheme launched in March.”

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NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
“The riots in our country don’t count because it was just a few racist weirdos.”

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- hitmyspot@aussie.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think thenpoibt was more that it had a sectarian tinge, rather than being a left/right divide like elsewhere. So, maybe for different reasons than England. However, disaffected youth is always going to be at the core. The rise in middle aged rioters is a worrying trend.
  
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dirtybeerglass@hexbear.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Playing to the crowd I s’pose.

Claptrap otherwise.

‘Yea they happen in Northern Ireland but it was like, the Northern Ireland’s who are British loyalists so it totally doesn’t matter”

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- ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Not sure if you heard, but Ireland had this big thing over the English living there. Northern Irish protestants are English.
  
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  - dirtybeerglass@hexbear.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Northern Irish protestants are English.
    
    Ulster was settled by English and Scots 400 years go, so if that is English to you fair enough. I can only hope your education wasn’t expensive.
    
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