Nobody is advocating for breaking fingers. Following the example set by the image, if someone were to have, for example, issues with their hands, then they should be provided tools to help them play the guitar. Do you think someone with a disability shouldn’t be allowed to do things even though tools to let them do those things exist? Keeping up such barriers is how we miss out on amazing talents hampered by obstacles that could be overcome provided adequate access.
Comment on The difference between equality, justice and equity.
Oyster_Lust@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Equality should be in protection of rights. People are not equal, and never will be. They should have equal rights, though.
Steve Vai is a better guitarist than I am. He shouldn’t have his fingers broken so that we both have equal ability to play the guitar.
Trying to make people equal in every way is evil. It only brings the best in every field down to the level of the worst, since there’s no way to bring everyone up to the level of the best in every field.
hark@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Kage520@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think what he was saying, but slightly missed, was, if both people needed guitar classes, we should not give the guy with the hand issues the only available seat.
Really though, if we just spend a bit more on education, there could be seats for everyone! So maybe the last picture could be fertilizing the tree to make it bigger or something.
JustAThought@lemm.ee 1 year ago
There is no taking away. Someone will have access to guitars that wouldn’t otherwise. Someone somewhere let a great player hear a guitar, see how it’s played, maybe even gave them their first guitar. it’s about giving not taking away.
JustAThought@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I think your problem is that you think that something will be taken away. Try to think in terms of the giving. Steve is not going to have anything taken away. Someone will have access to guitars that wouldn’t otherwise. Steve will be fine.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What if resources are limited? There is only one guitar but 3 people want one.
ssboomman@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Then instead of letting the super advantaged, super rich take all the resources we should work on getting and producing more. Which probably starts with taking from the people who are hoarding them all.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 1 year ago
According to the picture, increase the supply of guitars.
thereisalamp@reddthat.com 1 year ago
You entirely missed the point of this picture.
This picture isn’t about breaking Steve’s fingers so you can both play shitty guitar. It’s about making sure you can both access a guitar and lessons to learn.
The equality picture would be shoving a guitar in each of your hands and a coupon for lessons, while failing to address that you live 2 hours away from the teacher while he lives next door.
whats_a_refoogee@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
It’s about making sure you can both access a guitar and lessons to learn.
We are already trying to do that. It’s called equality. Also known as equality of opportunity, where everyone has access to acquire a guitar and guitar lessons. How does “justice” augment this?
thereisalamp@reddthat.com 1 year ago
You failed at reading the rest of the comment.
duffman@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The picture misses the millions of people who are too poor to afford a ladder and don’t belong to one of the groups targeted by the equity crowd.
ssboomman@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Why are you arguing against something literally no one said? How is this graphic trying to ‘make everyone equal in every way’? How is the person on the left of the graphic disadvantaged in any way? (That last one answers your idiotic ‘breaking fingers’ point)
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
I posted this to a comment further down, but thought I should post it up here:
Let me explain this to you. At birth there are situations that give people advantages that have nothing to do with ability. These advantages are systemic, where certain people will have better access to opportunity (apples) than others. The goal should be that the opportunities are equal so no one has a head start. The best apple picker will pick more apples instead of the person born with an orchard and apple picking machinery who very well may be a shit apple picker.
For your example, we’d end up with the best musicians becoming popular, not the ones where their parent could afford to give them private lessons since childhood and had industry connections to make them big where they wouldn’t otherwise.
It’s not about equality of outcomes, it’s about equality of opportunity. No one should start a race with a head start because then you don’t know who the best runner is. Everyone should start equally and everyone should have equal access to the same shoes, equipment, and practice opportunity, otherwise we can’t see who’s actually best without an advantage.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“Hmmm, he’s in a wheelchair so we’ll make things equal by chopping off your legs.”
ssboomman@lemm.ee 1 year ago
You make it seem like correcting the tree in the last panel hurts the advantaged girl on the left. It does not.
ImGonnaTryScience@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s not the point of equity. The point is to compensate for disadvantages people couldn’t prevent and can’t fix on their own. Stairs are equal. They work the same way for everyone. But someone in a wheelchair can’t climb stairs.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
In practice that’s equity programs work by hurtingsomeone. Some California schools cut advanced math classes because they weren’t diverse enough, or it was contributing to an educational gap, or some bullshit. Equity requires adding burden to someone, it may be in an attempt at fairness, but that doesn’t make it right.
DessertStorms@kbin.social 1 year ago
[citation needed]
duffman@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Equality people, “Let’s fund these people who are objectively poor, they are disadvantaged and need it.”.
Equity people, “let’s fund people part of this group I can clearly identify by looking at them. They are likely to be disadvantaged.”
ssboomman@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Lmaooo the only people who use that California talking point are people who have never been inside of a school in California. They aren’t cutting math classes they are offering alternatives to high level math courses like calculus, stats, and data science. Explain to me how that’s burdening anyone??
Reliant1087@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But you can reframe it. People don’t have equal mobility but everyone has an equal right to access a place, so you have stairs and ramps. You can’t make everything a ramp or stair to create equality.
duffman@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s not how equity works in practice. It doesn’t examine anyone’s actual capabilities or disadvantages. They bucket large groups of people into categories they deem worthy to receive resources, despite their actual need. Every person has their individual story, challenges, and priveleges yet equity assumes otherwise, that you deserve compensation based on the group you were assigned to, not what you actually need.
ssboomman@lemm.ee 1 year ago
That’s just not true. That’s how a person would feel if equity didn’t specifically help them.
oce@jlai.lu 1 year ago
It may work like that in practice in fields where it is extremely difficult to design solutions that are adapted to each person. Imagine you have to tailor laws and their application specifically to many millions of individuals, how do you do that without creating more manageable categories?