Museums are usually pretty safe spaces. Sorry you went through that and that trauma is is with you.
I’m a man, and also a victim of sexual assault from a man.
This isn’t the way.
Comment on Mona: Australia women's-only museum files appeal to keep men out
refalo@programming.dev 1 month agoYou know who actually want women-only spaces?
Women.
TheControlled@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Sethayy@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Man I hate to say it but cutting off 50% of the population due to trauma is a tauma response and solely that.
Its horrible you ever had to go through that and not even knowing you personally if I had a time machine to help I would; but that was one bad person, not a bad populace.
Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 1 month ago
On the other side of that, you can’t force something just because you’ve identified it as a trauma response. Deciding that women shouldn’t feel threatened by men (or the other way around) for them and taking away spaces they feel safe isn’t constructive, it’s cruel.
Sethayy@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Never did I say we should actively punish people for their trauma, I just simply mean we shouldn’t punish others for it either.
And a museum centred around controversy sounds like the last place for healthy healing
TheControlled@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Nah, best to blame men forever and call it.
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
What about a space for rape victims, male or female? Spaces for survivors of things, people dealing with things, etc. are fine, and if those things only touch women, it’ll naturally only be women, or men who are (let’s argue good faith, here) trying to support someone else. Rape isn’t a female only problem, and so segregating it artificially may feel like a good idea at first glance, but creates other issues.
What about a space for black cop abuse survivors? I’d think that’s pretty inappropriate. It’ll already be mostly black, for sure, and a lot of that perspective will come through, but it’s not a black only issue.
Kacarott@feddit.de 1 month ago
I think the intent behind a safe space is that it is separated from potential triggers. So people who were abused by a man may wish to be in a space with no men, since the sight of men might bring up past trauma. Same for people abused by women. Putting men and women together, even though they have all experienced abuse, may still be exposing them all to the same triggers they want to avoid.
Sethayy@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
But of course none of that really makes sense in a museum specialising on controversy
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 1 month ago
So we need a space for women abused by men, women abused by women, men abused by men, men abused by women, and people abused by mascots.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
How about if people who want to create safe spaces just create the safe spaces they want to create, and we try to respect their need instead of making sure they’ve covered every corner case an uninvolved third party can imagine?
I’m pretty sure that if there is a large enough community of people abused by mascots in a given locality, someone will create a safe space for those people.
samus12345@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Better add non-binary into the mix, too.
lud@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Maybe that makes sense for a party in someone’s home or whatever, but not in a museum.
No one goes to a museum to feel safe, because it is you know, a museum and not a safe house or something. If someone is so incredibly scared of the other half of humanity so they can’t go to a museum where they are allowed, they probably should go to therapy or stay at home instead of a museum.
TheControlled@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I was just about to to write something exactly like this.
Being afraid of 49% of the planet so hard that going outside is impossible, what the fuck is going to a museum going to be like? Do they escort you from your car into the side entrance? And then what? Enjoy a museum or is it group therapy in there? To what end.
Being catatonically afraid is not the world’s problem (ie fighting a legal case).
Kacarott@feddit.de 1 month ago
Yeah I agree, I wasn’t trying to support having women only museums, just making a point why mixing men and women safe spaces together doesn’t make much sense.
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Yeah, I understand the intent. And it is a good intent, one of those “seemingly good ideas” I mentioned. There are still HUGE problems with it, particularly depending on how broad and public the group is.
I can agree to a need for a safe place in order to get past trauma. The issue is one of equal access and quality, I think. Specifically for something like sexual assault, I can easily imagine there being a lot of instances where there are only women-only groups available. In a way, situations like this, where we need a safe space for one group, can deprive the other group of safe spaces.
If we want to keep segregated spaces for things like this, fine, but there has to be some equality of access. If not with your specific group, then having a network with other groups, for instance. This is a huge, complicated topic with a lot of possibilities and nuance, and is a bit past the point of this post. The purpose of my previous comment was to refute the obvious strawman of the last commenter, equating an art installation to safe spaces for sexual assault survivors.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Why? Let’s pretend I’ve got fuck you money, and I’ve had some close personal experiences with family members or friends suffering through sexual abuse or rape. All those friends are women.
If I create a shelter for women who need to be safe from sexual abuse and predators and away from all likely triggers while they recover - what exactly obligates me to any of that? I’m taking my money and building a women’s shelter, because that’s the group I’ve got a personal connection with, and the group I want to help. Elon Musk can build a men’s shelter if he wants.
I’m not asking about laws, I’m asking about ethics. Why am I obligated to help EVERY group because I’ve chosen to help ONE group?
Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Men and women are not the same. Rape is experienced differently for men and women. I’m not saying it’s worse for one than the other, but it literally involves that person’s genitals and is an intensely personal and gender specific thing.
The fact that you would lump male and female rape survivors together says a lot about how little experience you actually have with the subject.
There’s nothing wrong with having male-only rape survivor groups, especially if someone going through that trauma feels threatened by the other gender.