They make solar stations that will pull hydrogen right from the atmosphere. What carbon are you talking about…and you do realize the same power that would be used to make hydrogen in your example would also be charging batteries.
Yes! A clean platform that needs METRIC GIGATONS of carbon positive infrastructure to set up and maintain. That is why I call shenanigans on your zero harmful emissions claim.
VS
We already have wires, and batteries are more than good enough for a vast swath of the everyday commuting public.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 9 months ago
jabjoe@feddit.uk 9 months ago
That is a waste of solar. It’s more efficient to put in batteries then kinetic. If there is no more batteries to put it in, you transmit the power over wires.
With hydrogen it’s wasteful to create from electricity, then wasteful to turn into kinetic. Its wasteful to store as it’s the smallest atom so escapes easily, it’s low density so needs compressing. Then, to move it, you have to move storage around instead of just transmit over wires.
nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de 9 months ago
Exactly. And just to be clear, because it’s annoying me every time people gloss over this, it’s not just some percentage points lost in the conversion of energy, it’s actually ~75% of the energy that goes to waste, from energy production to the final motion of the wheels. EVs on the other hand only waste ~25% of energy. Even with the wishful thinking that the hydrogen can just be created in times of energy overproduction, you can’t beat a factor of 3.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Yep. H2 cars are pushed by the ignorant or the corrupt (oil money).
SupraMario@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Hydrogen is basically free energy though. Using solar to pull it from the atmosphere and then it goes in an ICE motor. Stations like these can supply hydrogen basically anywhere without needing to run wires to it. Providing fuel to ICE powered hydrogen cars.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 9 months ago
A…waste of solar…internal ICE hydrogen motors is what these would be used for not fuel cell hydrogen.
How are you wasting solar? Lol this makes no sense. These can be stood up anywhere, you cannot use these as super chargers for batteries…
frezik@midwest.social 9 months ago
Because you can put that electricity directly into the grid rather than wasting it making hydrogen.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Look at the efficiency of the energy conversions. It is literally wasting solar.
wewbull@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Hydrogen isn’t in the atmosphere. It’s 20.9% oxygen, 70% nitrogen and some trace other gases, none of which are hydrogen.
Hydrogen is produced either by splitting water (the H in H²O) or splitting hydrocarbons like Methane which produces CO² (the carbon part bonding with oxygen from the atmosphere, making that stuff we’re trying to cut back on).
That second method is why the fossil fuels companies are so keen on it. Hydrogen can be a repacked form of natural gas.
SupraMario@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes totally forgot how there is no water in our atmosphere…forgot the globe just has water in a few places and humidity doesn’t exist…
wewbull@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Oh yes, that 1% water vapour (on average) that you want 2/3rds of.
Gimme a break. I don’t think your machine producing hydrogen “straight out of the atmosphere” is going to be fueling many cars.
daqqad@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Hydrogen can be generated any time. Like when nuclear or solar or wind energy is otherwise going to waste. We don’t have and likely won’t have batteries that could replace it for decades.
Modern batteries are absolute shit and definitely not good enough. I think a good indication that batteries are anywhere near useful will be when you can fly on battery power across the Atlantic.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Wait, so … They’re nowhere near useful when we can already use them for daily commuting easily because of some arbitrary goalpost for an unrelated transportation method? How does that even make sense?
Infrastructure for hydrogen fueling requires production facilities, trucks to transport, and stations set up, to even start moving one vehicle let alone taking over any percentage of commuter traffic of any significance. EV fueling infrastructure requires… Pretty much the same grid we already have, at least as a functional baseline (yes, it needs improvements, but we’re not switching overnight so we have the time we need to make those changes; meanwhile, it’s already functional)
daqqad@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It isn’t arbitrary. Just a simplified example of stored energy to weight ratio.
Infra would show up if people didn’t jump on wrong tech just like electric charging infra is starting to show up.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
There’s that subjective “wrong tech” again
And again, the wholesale infrastructure needed is what I’m talking about, not the infrastructure availability.
Again: hydrogen requires, at a minimum, production facilities, trucking to distribution nodes, and fueling stations to get the fuel to the consumer.
Electricity… Is already being delivered. It just needs a way to plug in.
This has precisely zero to do with which tech has been “jump[ed] on”.
frezik@midwest.social 9 months ago
Wrong. There are tons of options for grid storage batteries that are gearing up for mass production right now.
jaemo@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Ok chief, you know best. Better sit out buying a vehicle until the dust settles then I guess.
Meanwhile, I’ll be charging my ‘not good enough’ EV and trying not to let the fact that it doesn’t measure up to your standards weigh to heavily on me.
daqqad@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I already have an EV and I still think batteries in them are shit. These are not mutually exclusive.
jaemo@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Hmm is it a leaf perchance? I’m very very happy with the 2020 Ioniq, it’s been solid, reliable, and true to its mileage estimate (I actually get 25km more range at 100% than the advertised specs)
I’ve heard negative stories about Nissan’s battery tech - which is why I ask. Air cooling is not really helpful to lithium battery cells.
It’s also possible you just got a bad module, and/or that you just have higher standards and expectations than I do, and these are also not mutually exclusive.