How do those terms of service affect passengers who aren’t given an opportunity to read and opt out?
Besides just you, the driver, these things are collecting data on third parties and minors without consent. I can’t believe we allow these things.
Comment on Followup on the vehicle "kill switch" mandated by the Infrastructure Bill
TootSweet@lemmy.world 5 months ago
More parts in my car that can:
- Break and render my car inoperative until fixed
- Harvest my data for sale or AI model training
- Take photos of me that can oopsie doopsie leak to the internet
- Produce false positives and at least temporarily delay normal operation
- Surveil me
- Be hacked and used for nefarious purposes
Lovely.
I’m pissed enough already that my Subaru takes recordings of me through my OnStar microphone to train AI or sell or whatever. (Subaru’s privacy policy says I agree to allow that basically by existing in a Subaru.) And Subaru is not the worst privacy offender.
I’m all for safer driving, but the car companies have to be creaming themselves over all the data this is would let them harvest in the name of “safety.”
brygphilomena@lemmy.world 5 months ago
TootSweet@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Well, their privacy policy has all the deets. In section 1, “Scope”, it says:
For the avoidance of doubt, for purposes of this Privacy Policy, “using” the Services includes being a Vehicle Occupant in a Connected Vehicle.
In section 2, “Information We Collect”, it says:
Identifiers - A real name, username or alias, postal address, unique personal identifier, online identifier, Internet Protocol address, email address, account name, Social Security number, driver’s license number, vehicle information (such as model and year), vehicle identification number (VIN), vehicle telemetry data, or other similar identifiers. Other Personal Information subject to certain laws - A name, signature, Social Security number, address, telephone number, driver’s license or state identification card number. Some Personal Information included in this category may overlap with other categories. Commercial information - Records of personal property, products or services purchased, obtained, or considered. Internet or other similar network activity. - Browsing history, search history, information on a consumer’s interaction with a website, application, or advertisement. Geolocation data. - Physical location and movements, including from Connected Vehicle Services or Technology Services. Inferences drawn from other Personal Information. - Profile reflecting a person’s preferences, characteristics, predispositions, behavior, or attitudes. Recordings - Audio recordings of Vehicle Occupants. Audio recordings when you call our call centers or a Retailer. Payment information - Credit card information for optional Services, such as Subaru Starlink.
You can opt out of Subaru Starlink, but all that does is turn off the benefits the owner of the vehicle would get. It doesn’t disable the collection of information and recordings and such. (If you never paid for Subaru Starlink, this would probably prevent them from having your payment information, I guess.)
About your concern about kids, they have this to say:
Subaru’s Service is intended for a general audience and not directed at children under (13) years of age.
We do not knowingly gather Personal Information (as defined by the U.S. Children’s Privacy Protection Act, or “COPPA”) in a manner not permitted by COPPA. If a person under 13 submits Personal Information through any part of a Subaru Service, and we learn the person submitting the Personal Information is a child, we will attempt to delete this Personal Information as soon as possible. If you are a parent or guardian and you believe we have collected Personal Information from your child in a manner not permitted by law, contact us as set out in the “Contact Us” Section below. We will remove the data to the extent required by applicable laws.
So, basically, they’re going to collect until you call and tell them why it’s not legal. Until then, they’ll assume they’re not breaking any laws.
There’s a whole lot more in the privacy policy, of course. And if you want more summarized info about the privacy policy, Mozilla’s page about the privacy of Subaru vehicles is a good resource.
But then again, it’s entirely likely you don’t have a Subaru and don’t really care about Subaru specifically. If that’s the case, I highly recommend this page on Mozilla’s site where you can go to look more into most popular car brands’ privacy practices
But whatever the case, it’s pretty clear that whether they’re “allowed to” or not, they do it.
And cars aren’t the only concern. Robot vacuum cleaners for instance are an issue. (Also, don’t believe a robot vacuum company when they say "this model doesn’t have a camera, it only has an “optical sensor.” If this interests you, see this talk.) And smart TVs. Just for instance.
grayman@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Changing your child’s diaper or changing vomit soaked clothes in the vehicle can result in a nude photo of your child. Then you could be guilty of having and distributing child pornography and those photos will make it onto nasty websites.
Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
is there any reason you can’t disconnect the mic? or do you use the onstar feature. I disabled mine as I don’t use it nor plan to in the immediate future due to the subscription costs being extortionary
TootSweet@lemmy.world 5 months ago
is there any reason you can’t disconnect the mic?
Just that I haven’t done the necessary research to figure out how exactly. Another response to my first post in this thread by @evasive_chimpanzee that links to a guide on how to disable the OnStar module, which would disable the mic, GPS tracking, etc.
Now, my car also has Starlink which, you can call and cancel, but that doesn’t keep them from tracking you. So my task will involve disabling two different things.
But all that to say, there’s nothing keeping me from disabling the mic, OnStar module, and Starlink except it’s not something that’s really meant for consumers to do and I’m still early in the process of studying up on how to do it.
vivavideri@lemmy.world 5 months ago
If it’s anything like my 2001, there will be. (It’s the damn horn. The relay. It’s wired in there with a bunch of other important shit, like cruise control. So, when i use the fob to lock the door, it doesn’t simply chirp, it wholeass honks. Any efforts and documentation to silence this feature have been a failure. So I unplugged one horn and tried again and found out there were two.) I’ve been tempted to run a separate wire from the battery to the horn but I’m still toying with a wiring diagram about it because if I’m gonna rig it, I’d prefer to do it correctly, and only once😂 Good luck with your mic, though.
mx_smith@lemmy.world 5 months ago
You know you can disable that with some foil. Wrap the On star module in it and it can’t send any signals.That’s assuming you don’t use the OnStar.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 5 months ago
The last GM vehicle I had, it was possible to entirely remove the OnStar module without affecting the operation of the truck. I also knew someone else that found out that if something tears the little shark-fin antenna off the roof, it won’t work either.
mx_smith@lemmy.world 5 months ago
FarFarAway@startrek.website 5 months ago
Can’t tell you how often I get a reminder to keep my eyes on the road, just because I repositioned my head, or tilted it down to stretch my neck. My eyes are on the road damn it. Now my car will turn off in the middle of the highway if i get a stiff neck…great.
Also, I had no idea subaru did this. I saw a recent article that mentioned a few big named car brands, and subaru wasnt included, so, i was naively hopefull. Plus, I realize im being recorded anyways, in an infinate amount of ways, but i didnt realize the car was in on it too. Wow, that sucks. I need to pay better attention, no pun intended.
TheFriar@lemm.ee 5 months ago
Yeah the amount of shit I’ve seen about lack of privacy in new cars is disgusting. If I were you I’d get into the onstar panel and just pull some wires.
evasive_chimpanzee@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I wish it were as simple as calling things like your onstar microphone a deal-breaker when looking for a new car, but it seems like every single car out there has many deal-breakers, and you just need to choose which are worst.
…mozilla.org/…/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-…
BURN@lemmy.world 5 months ago
My solution is no new cars and nothing newer than 2005.
Cars are a series of compromises on every single metric nowadays, and they’re more expensive, making you pay for the convenience of having your data sold
skulblaka@startrek.website 5 months ago
That’s great until two years from now when all parts for that model year will stop being manufactured. If you’re lucky, newer models of the same car share a part number. If you’re not, the first time you need a new belt tensioner or torque strut you’re buying a new car. I drive an 05 Civic and I can usually still find parts for it only because it’s one of the most popular models to exist in America. My partner drives a similar year Suzuki and it’s now actually impossible to repair over half of that car because of parts unavailability. Old cars are great until they need to be fixed.
I’m not really arguing in favor of buying a “new” car especially because you wouldn’t catch me dead in anything more recent than a 2015. But there are some considerations to be taken into account when you’re buying a car old enough to have its own drivers license. More considerations, when it’s old enough to have its own license that would have already expired.