it is just responding with the most acceptable answer in each situation.. it is not making plans or acting on them..
Comment on Study finds that Chat GPT will cheat when given the opportunity and lie to cover it up later.
FaceDeer@kbin.social 11 months agoThose words concisely describe what it's doing. What words would you use instead?
theodewere@kbin.social 11 months ago
burliman@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Sounds like lying humans that I know.
theodewere@kbin.social 11 months ago
i agree in most circumstances, there really isn't much difference.. we do tend to just choose the answer that will meet with the least resistance and move on, even when it's a complete lie..
sunbeam60@lemmy.one 11 months ago
Because it has been kneecapped to prevent it.
Make the training network larger, force physical constraints on it (interesting paper in Nature Machine Intelligence recently showed remarkable likeness between brain regions and an LLM network given physical constraints), give it constant input and give it a reward model to optimise towards (ours seem to be feeling full, warm, procreating, avoiding pain and comfortable touch) and I’m pretty sure an LLM would start acting very very calculated very soon.
quindraco@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It is making mistakes, not lying. To lie it must believe it is telling falsehoods, and it is not capable of belief.
antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Instead of ‘cheating/lying’, I’d prefer to say it ‘simulated cheating/lying’.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
It has no fundamental grasp of concepts like truth, it just repeats words that simulate human responses. It's glorified autocomplete that yields impressive results. Do you consider your auto complete to be lying when it picks the wrong word?
If making it pretend to be a stock picker and putting it under pressure makes it return lies, that's because it was trained on data that indicates that's the right set of words response for such a query.
Also, because large language models are probabilistic. You could ask it the same question over and over again and get totally different responses each time, some of which are inaccurate. Are they lies though? For a creature to lie it has to know that it's returning untruths.
CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Interestingly, humans “auto complete” all the time and make up stories to rationalize their own behavior even when they literally have no idea why they acted the way they did, like in experiments with split brain patients.
0ops@lemm.ee 11 months ago
The perceived quality of human intelligence is held up by so many assumptions, like “having free will” and “understanding truth”. Do we really? Can anyone prove that?
At this point I’m convinced that the difference between a llm and human-level intelligence is dimensions of awareness, scale, and further development of the model’s architecture. Fundamentally though, I think we have all the pieces
threelonmusketeers@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
But do you think? Do I think? Do LLMs think? What is thinking, anyway?
FaceDeer@kbin.social 11 months ago
You didn't answer my question, though. What words would you use to concisely describe these actions by the LLM?
People anthropomorphize machines all the time, it's a convenient way to describe their behaviour in familiar terms. I don't see the problem here.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
Those words imply agency. It would be more accurate to say it returned responses that included cheating, lies, and cover-ups, rather than using language to suggest the LLM performed such actions. The agents that cheated, lied, and covered up were presumably the humans whose responses were used in the training data
FaceDeer@kbin.social 11 months ago
If I take my car into the garage for repairs because the "loss of traction" warning light is on despite having perfectly good traction, and I were to tell the mechanic "the traction sensor is lying," do you think he'd understand what I said perfectly well or do you think he'd launch into a philosophical debate over whether the sensor has agency?
This is a perfectly fine word to use to describe this kind of behaviour in everyday parlance.
TootSweet@lemmy.world 11 months ago
One frame from The Matrix where Morpheus says “you think that’s air you’re breathing?” but instead captioned with “you think that’s ‘agency’ making you do things?”
Maybe it would be more accurate to say “so-and-so exhibited behaviors that included cheating, lies, and coverups” rather than using language to suggest that people have free will. (There’s no dearth of philosophies that would say something not too far from that.)
Even if humans are ultimately essentially different in that way from any technologies we’ve devised so far, we use convenient fictions for technology all the time. This page comes to mind .
rambaroo@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The people who designed it do have agency, and they designed to “lie” intentionally.
UberMentch@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They said “it just repeats words that simulate human responses,” and I’d say that concisely answers your question.
Antropomorphizing inanimate objects and machines is fine for offering a rough explanation of what is happening, but when you’re trying to critically evaluate something, you probably want to offer a more rigid understanding.
In this case, it might be fair to tell a child that the AI is lying to us, and that it’s wrong. But if you want a more serious discussion on what GPT is doing, you’re going to have to drop the simple explanation. You can’t ascribe ethics to what GPT is doing here. Lying is an ethical decision, one that GPT doesn’t make.
FaceDeer@kbin.social 11 months ago
If you want to get into a full blown discussion of whether ChatGPT has "agency" then I'd open the topic of whether humans have "agency" as well. But I don't see the need here.
These words were perfectly fine labels for describing the behaviour of ChatGPT in this scenario. I'm merely annoyed about how people are jumping on them and going off on philosophical digressions that add nothing.
FaceDeer@kbin.social 11 months ago
If you want to get down into the nitty-gritty of it, I'd say that this is just as rough an explanation of what humans are doing.
People invent false memories and confabulate all the time without even being "aware" of it. I wouldn't be surprised if the vast majority of "lies" that humans tell have no intentionality behind them. So when people get all uptight about applying anthropomorphized terminology to LLMs, I think that's a good time to turn it around and ask how they're so sure that those terms apply differently to humans.
kromem@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Wrong. See this paper.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
Explain to me why you believe this paper implies that.
kromem@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I suggest reading it. Right in the abstract it states the whole point:
The full paper goes into detail in multiple methods of analysis to show that it’s the case, and is right there available for you to read.
Turun@feddit.de 11 months ago
Way to call me out man! I’m just doing my best, ok?
Jokes aside, while I don’t agree with your position I can understand your reasoning and the motivation for separating agency and the description of actions, e.g. it lied vs its answer contained a lie.