That’s the only difference you see? Not the extreme disproportionality of the bloodshed? Not the comparisons between civilian casualties on each side?
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
The israeli Government is not the only one with blood on their hands and while nothing can excuse what the IDF is doing, nothing can excuse what HAMAS is doing too.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is for Israelis.
prole@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
timewarp@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Hamas is like the cave-dwelling dwarf people that America made up for the middle-east to justify killing over a hundred-thousand civilians. Seriously, are we to believe that Gaza has a bunch of Gringotts vaults underneath it?
Seriously, it is clear that the bombing is not about saving hostages nor destroying Hamas. Would it surprise anyone if they found out that Israel’s far-right government is like the ex that attacks you and then punches themselves and screams like a Karen that you attacked them first… and then when asked for evidence because their wounds look self-induced, they yell… you don’t believe me you antisemitic Nazi!?!
spiderplant@lemm.ee 7 months ago
Oh no! Not a German overcompensating for their countries role in the holocaust.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is for Israelis.
- Israel has policies for killing soldiers and civilians if they are going to be taken hostage
- Israeli helicopters indiscriminately shooting at the festival are responsible for most of the deaths at the festival on the 7th
- Israel has killed more Israeli hostages than Hamas and has tried to refuse accepting the return of hostages
- Israel has a 99% civilian kill ratio when targeting hamas in this latest operation
If you want to dismantle Hamas for the the operation on the 7th, by the same logic we should dismantle Israel 10x for all their operations since 2003 such as operation lead.
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Israeli helicopters indiscriminately shooting at the festival are responsible for most of the deaths at the festival on the 7th (pretty bad for Israelis)
Do you have a source for this?
UnspecificGravity@lemmings.world 7 months ago
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
Sure, and if you are those things its going to be hard to get enthusiastic about voting for Biden.
piexil@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You literally listed off everything Israel is doing. Good job.
Israel’s killed over 11k civilians since Oct 7th.
Israel’s bombed over 20 hospitals.
Israel refused to take their hostages back even when Hamas offered them in exchange for the Palestinians hostages Israel has. Then bombed the locations they know hostages were at.
Tavarin@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Hamas is using hospitals as staging grounds to fire rockets at Israel, over 9,500 rockets so far since Oct 7th.
The hostage exchange was for a ceasefire that Hamas wanted so they could regroup and start attacking Israel from stronger positions. And they only offered 15 of the 200+ hostages. It was fucking bullshit, and Israel was right to reject it.
ronalicious@lemmy.world 7 months ago
nothing really found in the hospitals yet - apnews.com/…/israel-hamas-war-news-11-16-2023-6c7…
Tavarin@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
We know Hamas fighters have been using the hospitals to stage rocket attacks, and fire out of. Whether there is an actual base of operations hidden in them is beyond the point, Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to fire at Israel from. They have said as much, they fight from among civilians to get Israel to kill civilians so Israel looks bad to the world. It’s how Hamas operates.
yagurlreese@lemmy.world 7 months ago
yea exactly I’m sick of all this whataboutism about Hamas. Hamas is the sole response to the atrocities that the idf has started. they hold all the power in this situation, they have killed many many many more people then Hamas ever could. They have also committed and are committing insane like Nazi level war crimes and all we get is… okay but Hamas bad.
also lets not forget… most Palestinians didn’t even want Hamas. they havent had an actiall election in almost two decades. Because it’s literally not safe enough because the idf keeps bombing them.
stop all the back and forth finger pointing, America could pull funding from isreal, instead of this E fleas posturing. If isreal wanted peace then we could hve peace but there will never be peace until the idf stops bombing refugee camps and hospitals lol.
so sick of all this whataboutism, obviously any killing is wrong but Hamas is just a glorified token a red herring being used to justify brutality on a Holocaust level scale. and we need to stop allowing it.
Tavarin@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Not for lack of trying. If it weren’t for the billions of dollars spent on the Iron Dome every year, and the Israeli intelligence apparatus allowing them to evacuate their cities before attacks, many more Israelis would be dead. Attempted murder by Hamas is still atrocious.
Hamas still had broad support as of 2020, so no most Palestinians do want Hamas.
Tell Hamas to stop using them as bases of operation and firing rockets at Israel from those locations then. Hamas wants dead Palestinian civilians, that’s their goal in the war to make Israel look bad.
sukhmel@programming.dev 7 months ago
It pains me to admit but that works and I think Israel does look bad because of this. Also when you have people indoctrinated to the level that they will gladly act as a shield to become martyres it is hard to fight clean :( I haven’t thought about this possibility before
fosforus@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Bullshit statistic until it is verified by independent sources. Currently, the only source for that number is Hamas.
Eximius@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I feel hospitals (warcrime) were visible from satellites and independent sources covered it.
fosforus@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Attacking a hospital is not a warcrime if the hospital is used for military operations.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
In past conflicts, the death toll provided by Hamas (if you call the Ministry of Health in Gaza that) were largely accurate and didn’t differ much from independent counts conducted by the UN.
This article has an example on how it was in a conflict in 2014. There is another article that had more examples, but I cannot find it. It was from the Guardian I believe.
www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67347201
tronx4002@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Great list
piexil@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Israel is not allowing anyone to to conduct outside verification, and hasn’t for literal years. They deny UN workers visas, disallow any humanitarian worker from entering or leaving Gaza ( hrw.org/…/israeli-restrictions-access-and-gaza-hu…)
but Hamas is not fighting outside verification. The UN has also repeatedly verified hamas’ death counts in previous instances.
That alone should tell you whose statistic you should be more trusting of, and it’s not israels.
timewarp@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Netanyahu be like… “Hmm, they are going to attack but if I stop them I may still go to jail, but if I don’t then I get more power… Let me have the Kushners put me in touch with Donny to see what he’d do.”