I’m with you. We absolutely need some common sense gun legislation, but every time it comes up, it turns into a political mess. And almost all of the legislation is either like a bandaid on a leaking dam, or overbearing nanny-state bullshit.
Comment on Why is the DEA and ATF separate? Seems like they cover similar things from similar circles.
shalafi@lemmy.world 7 months agoNever understood the ATF hate until I became a gun enthusiast. Heysus! Even us libs hate 'em!
I bought a perfectly legal .22 rifle, pretty much this (without whatever suppressor thing is shown). Note the stupid looking flexible stock. That was a way to get a “short barreled rifle” because a normal, rigid stock would be illegal. “Uh, it’s not a stock. It’s a handicap thing for one-armed shooters.” Yes, it can work that way and yes, it’s a loophole.
Now I’m a felon for owning such a thing even though it was legal when I bought it. ATF: “We changed our mind. And no your gun isn’t grandfathered. Because fuck you, that’s why.”
Shit like this is why shooters rail against any gun legislation. One dumb thing after another like this sucks political capital that could be spent on better, more effective gun laws.
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 7 months ago
shalafi@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I’m with ya’, but gun debates taught me to avoid the “common sense” argument, in any context.
If you use those words, you imply that anyone that doesn’t agree doesn’t have “common sense”. It’s a shortcut to say, “You’re an idiot if you don’t accept my premise.” And that’s no way to reach consensus.
I’d used that term my whole life! Now I avoid it like poison.
Maybe drifting off topic a bit, but I’d like to hear your “common sense” ideas. There’s got to be ideas we can all come around to.
I’ll go first, and it seems an easy one; Draconian laws regarding storage. Do it please ya’ gunslinger, but everything other than your primary and secondary self-defense weapons must be locked in a safe. Don’t care about ammo. Don’t care about guns in pieces that you’re working on. Does it fire? Pick two and rotate the rest out your safe(s). That doesn’t seem unreasonable. And if you’re unsecured weapon is stolen or used by a minor? You. Are. Fucked.
brygphilomena@lemmy.world 7 months ago
How do you enforce storage laws? Do you regularly inspect people’s homes?
Storage like that isn’t unreasonable, but the methods required to enforce it are.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 7 months ago
Same way any law is enforced. If you’re caught, you are punished.
JustZ@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Who cares. People who get upset at this shit are fucking babies. Kids are getting shot left and right. Nobody gives a fuck about your short barrel.
SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
So many gun laws are just fucking stupid. Tons of stuff is banned because it looks scary.
SBRs being illegal is pretty dumb.
shalafi@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Brother, I can talk dumb and ineffective gun laws all night long without repeating myself.
Problem is that people, of any political persuasion, don’t get the notion of political capital. I rant about it a lot. :)
No matter how right you think you are, no matter how scientifically valid your reasoning, no matter how sensible, no matter what, making laws costs goodwill. Decisions cost votes. And votes determine one’s ability to stay in office and effect the sorts of changes one, and hopefully, their constituents want.
Knowing that and factoring it in is what politicians need to be doing. FFS, this is high school Government 101.
Guns for example:
“We want a ‘high capacity’ mag ban!”
Well, none of that works like you think. High cap mags jam, the military won’t even use 'em, only mass shooter idiots, and I’d rather their shit jam. Besides, swapping a mag is trivial for a shooter, 4-seconds if he sucks. Can we talk about it?
“Children! Safety! WANT!”
OK, it’s gotta cost voters, and cost you a chance to make real changes.
“WANT!”
tl;dr If the Democrats had brains enough to read the room, they’d {drop the non-stop gun ban shit](imgur.com/a/pR7CuLA), gain all those single-issue voters and sweep the polls everywhere.
“WANT!!!”
Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world 7 months ago
They just change the definitions when it suits them.
High capacity used to be the big 50-100 round mags. Now when they say “high capacity” they mean standard capacity 30 round or even smaller. Plenty of places ban anything over 10 or 15.
JustZ@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Yeah, because there’s no legitimate self-defense purpose to load more than 10 rounds. If you can’t do it in 10, you can’t do it.
toastus@feddit.de 7 months ago
So I have no idea about guns but would you say there is no legislative way to end the fact that the USA is the only first world country with a mass shooting like every other day?
Again I am not arguing for or against any one particular measure or ban.
I don’t know anything about high cap mags or whatever.
But I do know that other countries seem to show a correlation between stricter gun laws and less fatalities by gun.
Or is it your 2nd amendment that stands in the way of effective legislative measures?
It just seems like a problem that should be so easy to solve and as a European it just seems strange that you guys seem to be completely unable to even make improvements.
Garbanzo@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Other countries have universal healthcare and functioning social services. I suspect there’s a stronger correlation between those things and lower levels of violence of all types.
AnotherRyguy@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I think the issue here is that lawmakers don’t know enough about guns to write laws to regulate them effectively. They just ban things that sound dangerous because it makes it look like they’re doing things without actually having to do things.
Republicans have a legitimate argument that Democrat gun control laws are fucking stupid, and Democrats have a legitimate argument that we need more gun control. Most of us just sit here wishing you can be allowed to own a gun, but not buy a fucking assault rifle from some random dickhead at at a gun fair.
SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
It would require a constitutional amendment to outright ban guns, and our Congress can’t agree on year to year budgeting. Getting the required votes to ban guns would be functionally impossible. Honestly even if it didn’t require an amendment I don’t think it would be realistically passed as a regular law.
So: banning guns outright is off the table.
KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
When kept separate from a receiver, it’s perfectly legal, they’re just gun parts. So just make sure you travel with it in pieces and only shoot with friends out in nature
SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee 7 months ago
They’ll still arrest you for constructive possession.
atf.gov/…/can-i-possess-pistol-and-unattached-“st…