Comment on That Voyager is one clean burning starship though, I’ll tell you what.

MaggiWuerze@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• ummthatguy@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “transporter puffer”

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  • transientpunk@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s Chief Transporter Puffer to you!

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  • verity_kindle@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I love the Geordi Grimace in this one.

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• ApostleO@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s my head-canon conspiracy theory that the true workings of the transporter are hidden/obfuscated, even from the technicians and engineers, to avoid the existential dread of facing the truth: you die, and then it clones you.

  All these systems to make it appear as if it’s a single, consistent matter stream, to leave room for the possibility of a consistent consciousness or even soul. It all falls apart in light of William Riker. You can’t duplicate matter. The only feasible explanation is that they got his scan, and successfully materialized him, but the signal that would have disintegrated the original failed.

  Tuvix died because people couldn’t accept how many times they had technically killed their colleagues, or commited suicide.

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  • LastYearsPumpkin@feddit.ch ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Sure, but different writers treat it differently. What about the one episode with Broccoli, where we get a first person view of being in the transporter, and he clearly has a continuous consciousness throughout the experience.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realm_of_Fear

    Based on this episode, you aren’t killed and recreated.

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    • RojoSanIchiban@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      IIRC, it is explained (kinda) that the personal viewpoint of being solid within the matter stream isn’t entirely real. Wishywashy, but how do you show that on a screen, really?

      To the bigger issue above, the function of the transporter is that the pattern buffer isn’t “storage” such that you cannot query against the buffer as if it’s data in memory where individual particles can be pinpointed. (Obv this is not necessarily canon and some episodes poke holes in the idea).

      I’ve always imagined it more like a mound of dirt dumped onto a conveyor in FIFO order, sending it up the beam, then rolling in order into the pattern buffer. The buffer is just holding all the matter in a continuous conveyor in the original order so it can be reassembled on the pad. Outright saving a pattern to memory where every particle location, energy state, etc. would take basically all the memory everywhere (TNG: Lonely Among Us). Weapon and bacteria/virus patterns could be simple enough to detect within the buffer to knock those bits out as the “dirt” rolls around continuously.

      And of course the longer you roll a bunch of dirt down a conveyor, the positions of particles shift out of their original position until eventually there’s not enough of the original pattern to reassemble properly.

      My headcanon for Scotty locking the buffer into a diagnostic loop means additional scrutiny in the system’s pattern scanning which then keeps “knocking” bits back into place they were in the prior ‘pass’ down the conveyor in order to continue calibrating scanners.

      Don’t look at me like I’m crazy, it totally makes sense!!!¡!!!¡!!! *cough

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  • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So, you’re saying Tuvix died for our sins?

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    • ummthatguy@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Image

      Pardon my blasphemy.

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  • ashok36@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When you’re advanced enough to let go of concepts like having a soul, the idea of having your being destroyed and remade elsewhere becomes a lot let problematic. What’s the difference between being anesthetized and revived VS transported?

    Shit, for all we know the universe just started five minutes ago and all of history is just a collective delusion. Just go with the flow and stop worrying about existential problems. One day you’ll die forever and that’s OK.

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    • verity_kindle@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Spock had a soul and that is canon. His soul (or whatever it was that made Spock more than the sum of his sexy, sexy green parts) was so important to his friends they quit their jobs, stole their own ship, crashed her, stole another one then got Spock’s soul out of valet parking just in time by THISMUCHSECONDS before it (or he) got lost forever. Point being, souls are a thing for Vulcans, why not everybody else?

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    • ApostleO@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Oh, for sure. I’m fine with that. But it seems clear that the writers aren’t, and neither are many Trekkies.

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  • ryan@the.coolest.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The transporter is just a people replicator. Same technology. Why reinvent the wheel?

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• Lydia_K@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The cannon answer is that it doesn’t work that way, it coverts you to energy and that energy is turned back into you so “nothing changes”. In cannon it doesn’t kill you and assemble a new copy, and you can’t duplicate a person because you only have one copy of their energy.

  Accidents like Thomas Riker are not supposed to be possible and only happen when they encounter strange energies which cause reactions that aren’t understood, so they can’t just make duplicates on demand.

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  • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The transporter doesn’t work this way

    Sometimes it does but that doesn’t count because it’s not supposed to work this way

    Just ignore it

    Your soul is already lost to the warp.

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    • Lydia_K@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I didn’t write the cannon, I just went to warp in it.

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      • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        A photonic cannon?

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  • MaggiWuerze@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m pretty sure even in Voyager there was an incident where someone got stuck in the transporter puffer/cache/whatever it’s called in the og

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    • Crashumbc@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      In the new one, the doctor is literally keeping his daughter in stasis in it…

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    • setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Off hand I actually can’t think of any, aside from as close as Tuvix got.

      There was the episode where the population of Neelix’s home planet were revealed to be in some kind of particle limbo from a Star Trekium powered super weapon and a scientist was trying, unsuccessfully to restore them.

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      • ApostleO@startrek.website ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I think there was also an episode where Voyager smuggled some people through hostile space by hiding them in the patter buffer.

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• ForgetReddit@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Transporters become horrifying when you think of them as something obliterating all your molecules then recreating them somewhere else. The thing that comes out the other side has all your memories and personality and looks the same… but you 100% died when you got vaporized in the teleport.

  I would never do it.

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  • ummthatguy@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    For more information, watch the documentary “The Prestige”

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    • MaggiWuerze@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Oh man, that was a crazy reveal. And he kept them all!

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  • FfaerieOxide@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If it has my memories and affects the world the way I would, that's me.

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  • ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Look at any photograph or work of art. If you could duplicate exactly the first tiny dot of color, and then the next and the next, you would end with a perfect copy of the whole, indistinguishable from the original in every way, including the so-called “moral value” of the art itself. Nothing can transcend its smallest elements. CEO Nwabudike Morgan, “The Ethics of Greed”

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  • Zorque@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So... don't think of them like that. They clearly don't work that way in Trek.

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• Crashumbc@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Transporters were created to save many on the original series and have butt fucking plot holes ever since.

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  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s because of the plots they specifically made around the Transporters.

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• Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They don’t create matter, they create an energy matter stream that moves the person molecule by molecule. How it happens is scifi magic, but it’s not the same as creating new atoms, which would require every replicator to have the energy to obliterate a planet.

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  • Sotuanduso@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Replicators can make more than enough food to feed the ship.

    Why not use some of those atoms to reconstruct victims of unfortunate accidents? If there’s not enough, why not pack enough?

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    • Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Because the stored patterns have the where, not the how fast. What would come out is a brain dead corpse.

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  • MaggiWuerze@feddit.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No, they explicitly are written to a buffer of sorts and only when they were read completely are they reintegrated. That means you could easily just create two from the data and it would only use more energy.

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    • Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The buffer contains the stream(s) before being sent to an emitter. It’s not a hard drive, it’s a container.

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