Climate change is a huge factor in why I’m not having children. So in that sense it plays its own role in this demographic cliff.
Comment on 15,000 Scientists Warn Society Could 'Collapse' This Century In Dire Climate Report
sj_zero 8 months ago
Of all the reasons society could collapse this century, climate isn't one of them.
Not saying climate won't eventually be an issue that can cause society to collapse, but the histrionics we're seeing are going to be counter-productive. It's the same sales tactic a sleazy used car salesman would use.
"It's a crisis! Everything is terrible! BUY NOW! BUY NOW! BUY NOW! OR YOU'LL BE DEAD FOREVER!!!"
The demographic cliff we're seeing 20 years from now is far more likely to cause society to collapse. China is projected to see its population drop in half. Most western countries are going to have more than one retiree for every working age person.
Ironically, once the demographic bomb goes off, climate will be a much easier to solve problem since we'll have all these solar panels and virtually nobody to use all the power.
Nonameuser678@aussie.zone 8 months ago
sj_zero 8 months ago
I've got a hypothesis about that on an anthropological side of things.
Is anxiety about climate change causing the demographic cliff, or is economic stress causing something primal in our minds to be terrified about ecological concerns?
Reality is that the environment is in better shape in western cities than it has been for centuries. Just 50 years ago many cities were horribly polluted in ways you could immediately see and smell (and in a lot of Chinese cities we get to see) and today they're in much better shape, but we're hunter gatherers and so when we feel like we're working too hard just to stay alive and we're not getting our basic needs met something kicks in where we wonder if nature, the provider of all we have, is in trouble.
It makes a lot of sense to me that we can sense that our lives are getting more difficult and so our hunter gatherer instincts are kicking in leading to anxiety about the ecology that provides for us. We would have had millions of years to hone such instincts, and the humans who didn't could have actually killed themselves off like yeast in strong wine.
FooBarrington@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s a bit weird that you’re looking for a psychological explanation while ignoring the obvious one: massive amounts of scientific analysis are pointing towards our environments changing at rates only seen during times of mass extinction. I’m not extrapolating economical issues to ecological concerns, I’m listening to people who have spent their whole lives studying these topics.
sj_zero 8 months ago
There's lots of scientific and mathematical evidence for a lot of threats. Some of those are much more imminent than climate change. Yet of all those things, it's this one thing, a long term threat that isn't going to fully manifest until after you're dead, and possibly after your kids are dead, that has captured the popular imagination.
I think it would be crazy not to look for a psychological explanation.
Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I think you are missing a few key external inputs with your theory. Yes populations in Western and Asian societies are predicted to drop, however African populations are still predicted to rise and that will blunt the level of population decline overall.
We may not be able to adapt our agriculture and industry to climate change fast enough. Once these industries suffer catastrophic setbacks or supply chain disruption they may never come back on line especially if we live in a world of constant crisis and change.
Finally there are external inputs that humanity doesn’t control that may take the place of industrial emissions which could create a feedback loop that humanity can’t break even if we set our emissions to zero. Google methane release from permafrost melting of you want a good example. There are also large stores of methane deep within the ocean that could be released if sea temperature rise as well.
There is a very good chance that if humanity enters a climate change induced “dark age” that we may never recover as a species. Most of the easily accessed resources that underpin our society were exhausted early on in our industrialization. A society trying to rebuild in the aftermath of a complete collapse may not be able to rebuild as there are no easy resource inputs to harvest to jump start the process. We may not get a second chance to correct our mistakes as a species.
deus@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Your last point is something I’ve never thought about but makes a lot of sense. Humans living in the aftermath of our collapse probably won’t be able to go through another industrial revolution without easy access to resources like coal, oil or peat. Guess it’s for the better though, since a collapse likely means we’ll have already fully screwed the environment once.
meyotch@slrpnk.net 8 months ago
The second Industrial Revolution could be built upon the garbage of the first, perhaps? It’s not like all that metal and solar capacity will just disappear.
GenesisJones@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Confidently incorrect.
kandoh@reddthat.com 8 months ago
…wikipedia.org/…/List_of_periods_and_events_in_cl…
Check out the common era /AD section.
SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
You do realize we are reliant on the climate to grow the food we eat and get the water we drink… right?
What do you think will happen when those things come under strain?
sj_zero 8 months ago
There's a lot of dangers to our civilization right now. The global debt bomb set to go off is going to be a problem in the next 10 years, but nobody seems to care about that despite the imminent and long lasting consequences.
Despite that, the threats people seem most concerned about are important but not imminent. There's a reason people are particularly worried about this thing among all the threats out there.
SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
The economy is a social construct. We could change the whole system if we really wanted to.
Our climate is a real, physical, thing. Just like the food we eat or the houses we live in. Destroying those things are far more irreversible, with far more consequences, than an economy that can be fixed.
It’s like worrying about the economy while chopping down the last tree on an island.
Coreidan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
10 years is a stretch. 1-2 years max.