One in ten of chemistries in the lab work in real world conductions. One in ten of those are cheap enough to consider production. One in ten of those can scale up to mass manufacturing. Most research works like that. You have to keep going until you hit jackpot.
Comment on New sodium ion battery stores twice the energy and desalinates seawater
chocrates@piefed.world 2 days agoWe hear about a new battery chemistry like every week. Do most never get to commercialization?
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 2 days ago
meco03211@lemmy.world 2 days ago
R&d on these I’m guessing takes a little while. And it greatly depends on what niche they fill. Like the poster above said these might have lower density. For applications that move, that’s not usually good. How sensitive are they to hot and cold? That could necessitate thermal management.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 days ago
They have slightly lower density right now, but there is work to increase the density, and it could very well get up to about 210wh/kg which would put it directly on par with current lithium ion batteries. So it could replace the low end of the EV market without any significant change except for a reduction in price by a lot.
SapphironZA@sh.itjust.works 2 days ago
Its that way with many technologies. The lead time on such research is long enough that market factors alter the viability by the time it is ready to get commercialized.
Quite often innovations from prototype technology can be transplanted into existing tech for part of the benefit, without having to build new production capacity. So the new technology does not commercialised, but the learnings from it does.
GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 1 day ago
No, that’s why we use the same batteries Voltaire did on his frogs.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Voltaire was a French poet.
Alessandro Volta was the electrochemist.
JFC…what do they teach in schools any more?
GreyEyedGhost@piefed.ca 1 day ago
Well, I know the difference between alkaline, NiCd, NiMH, and lithium batteries, and that they don’t grow on trees, so at least I have that.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 days ago
probably too expensive and inefficient. LI-ion is pretty efficient compared to NA-ION.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
LI-ion is pretty efficient compared to NA-ION.
at room temperature, but in the real world, where it gets cold, sodium batteries have an advantage.
turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 1 day ago
Li-ion technology has huge factories behind it, so economies of scale apply here. The first Na-ion battery factories have just started, so everything is more expensive to manufacture in small scale. However, the ingredients are cheaper and easily available. Once they ramp up production, we can make a fair comparison between the two.
I have a feeling LIBs are going to be more expensive, but they won’t disappear since high energy density is very handy in mobile applications like cars and phones. SIBs are probably end up being a lot cheaper, which should make them a popular option in all the less demanding applications, like grid energy storage, kitchen scales and anything in between.
apftwb@lemmy.world 2 days ago
They mostly these articles are showing new avenues for research. Most are deadends usually due to issues with production/scalability.
Sodium Ions batteries are coming to market, however the issue is that Lithium Ion are just improving faster and making it harder for Sodium Ion batteries to compete.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world 2 days ago
Unless other situations where the established technology wins due to inertia, sodium ion batteries have two benefits that make them interesting regardless:
Firstly, they are safer. A punctured sodium ion battery doesn’t catch fire, which massively simplifies safety design. That makes them very attractive for certain scenarios, especially ones where density is a secondary concern. That in turn means they get further development money instead of withering on the vine.
Secondly, they require fewer hard-to-obtain materials, which makes them attractive from a strategic perspective. This one should be less important than the safety factor but it’s also relevant.
I’m pretty sure we’ll actually see wet sodium cells in the wild if they are actually practical. Sodium ion tech is already being commercialized and if this brings it within the same ballpark as lithium ion then it becomes a very interesting choice for vehicles due to instant crash safety gains.
0tan0d@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They also perform better in the cold making them a better choice for EVs in cold regions. This is why I think CATL saw the videos of cars getting killed by cold and pulled the trigger on retooling even with the lithium price crash.
wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
Not to mention from a human rights perspective, it’s not just easier to obtain sodium than lithium but also more humane.
There is an industry for ethically-sourced materials, and even if this doesn’t completely replace lithium it can still significantly reduce the amount needed to meet demand, which can also encourage more ethical practices in that supply chain too, such as sourcing it from areas with stronger labor laws.
MajinBlayze@lemmy.world 1 day ago
To bad the market doesn’t care about human rights
BreakerSwitch@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The harder to obtain materials aspect, while long term relevant, is barely a factor right now. Lithium production has exploded and resulted in a massive drop in prices that’s making the main consumer appeal for sodium batteries, price, a non-factor and driving some sodium battery producers out of business