Isn’t Waymo rate better because they are very particular where they operate? When they are asked to operate in sligthly less than perfect conditions it immediately goes downhill researchgate.net/…/385936888_Identifying_Research… (page 7, Uncertainty)
Comment on Tesla Robotaxis Reportedly Crashing at a Rate That's 4x Higher Than Humans
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It’s important to draw the line between what Tesla is trying to do and what Waymo is actually doing. Tesla has a 4x higher rate, but Waymo has a lower rate.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
73ms@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
We are talking about Tesla robotaxis. They certainly do drive in very limited geofenced areas also. While Waymo now goes on freeways only in the Bay Area with the option being offered to only some passengers Tesla Robotaxis do not go on any freeways ever currently. In fact they only have a handful of cars doing any unsupervised driving at all and those are geofenced in Austin to a small area around a single stretch of road.
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 1 day ago
That is certainly true, but they are also better than humans in those specific areas. Tesla is (shockingly) stupid about where they choose to operate. Waymo understands their limitations and choose to only operate where they can be better than humans. They are increasing their range, though, including driving on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles… which is usually less than 35mph!!
jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Because Waymo uses more humans?
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Because Waymo doesn’t try and do FSD with only cameras.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 day ago
Are they doing FSD if there are human overseas? Surely that is not “fully”.
So human overseas and not only cameras.
73ms@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
All these services have the ability for a human to solve issues if the FSD disengages. Doesn’t mean they’re not driving on their own most of the time including full journeys. The remote assistant team is just ready to jump in if there’s something unusual that causes the Waymo driver to disengage and even then they don’t usually directly control the car, they just give the driver instructions on how to resolve the situation.
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 1 day ago
No, they don’t.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 16 hours ago
Searching for “Waymo human overseas” brings up results about it. Doing similar for Telsa isn’t finding anything. Also I’ve not heard about like I have with Waymo. I don’t think Waymo are wrong to do this at all. It not making a decision when unsure is safer.
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Waymo has a capability for remote control of their cars in niche situations. They don’t do it all the time like Tesla has been doing. It is for when they get boxed in to a street by moving trucks and the only way to move past is to break a driving rule like passing in a no passing zone. They have one remote driver for every 40 cars. Tesla has one remote driver for every one car.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Not just lower, a tiny fraction of the human rate of accidents:
waymo.com/safety/impact/
Also, AFAIK this includes cases when the Waymo car isn’t even slightly at fault. Like, there have been 2 deaths involving a Waymo car. In one case a motorcyclist hit the car from behind, flipped over it, then was hit by another car and killed. In the other case, ironically, the real car at fault was a Tesla being driven by a human who claims he experienced “sudden unintended acceleration”. It was driving at 98 miles per hour in downtown SF and hit a bunch of stopped cars at a red light, then spun into oncoming traffic and killed a man and his dog who were in another car.
Whether or not self-driving cars are a good thing is up for debate. But, it must suck to work at Waymo and to be making safety a major focus, only to have Tesla ruin the market by making people associate self-driving cars with major safety issues.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
www.iihs.org/research-areas/…/state-by-state
Well, no. Lets talk fatality rate. According to linked data, human drivers
Vs Waymo 2 deaths per 127 million miles :)
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Well, Waymo’s really at 0 deaths per 127 million miles.
The 2 deaths are deaths that happened were near Waymo cars in a collision involving the Waymo car. Not only did the Waymo not cause the accidents, they weren’t even involved in the fatal part of either event. In one case a motorcyclist was hit by another car, and in the other one a Tesla crashed into a second car after it had hit the Waymo (and a bunch of other cars).
The IIHS number takes the total number of deaths in a year, and divides it by the total distance driven in that year. It includes all vehicles, and all deaths. If you wanted the denominator to be “total distance driven by brand X in the year”, you wouldn’t keep the numerator as “all deaths” because that wouldn’t make sense, and “all deaths that happened in a collision where brand X was involved as part of the collision” would be of limited usefulness. If you’re after the safety of the passenger compartment you’d want “all deaths for occupants / drivers of a brand X vehicle” and if you were after the safety of the car to all road users you’d want something like “all deaths where the driver of a brand X vehicle was determined to be at fault”.
The IIHS does have statistics for driver death rates by make and model, but they use “per million registered vehicle years”, so you can’t directly compare with Waymo:
iihs.org/…/driver-death-rates-by-make-and-model
Also, in Waymo it would never be the driver who died, it would be other vehicle occupants, so I don’t know if that data is tracked for other vehicle models.
hector@lemmy.today 15 hours ago
I seem to recall a homeless woman that got killed like right away when they released these monstrosities on the road, because why pay people to do jobs when machines can do them for you? I’m sure that will work out for everyone, with investment income.
73ms@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
When there’s two deaths total it’s pretty obvious that there just isn’t enough data yet to consider the fatal accident rate. Also FWIW like was said neither of those was in any way the Waymo’s fault.
hector@lemmy.today 15 hours ago
That’s the problem, you can’t trust these companies not to use corrupt influence to blame others for their mistakes. It’s you verses a billions of dollars companies with everything at stake, that owns (senior tiered leasing rights,) your politicians, both locally, in state, and federally, and by extension the regulators up and down the line.
Do you not know how things work in this country? Given their outsized power we don’t want them involved in determining blame for accidents, dash cam footage or no, we’ve seen irrefutable evidence is no guarentee of justice, even if it’s provided to you.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 19 hours ago
The “fault” means nothing to “deaths per miles” statistic though?
TooManyGames@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
I immediately formed a conspiracy theory that Teslas automatically accelerate when they see Waymo cars
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
And it’s not out of aggression. It’s just that their image recognition algorithms are so terrible that they match the Waymo car with all its sensors to a time-traveling DeLorean and try to hit 88 mph… or something.
TooManyGames@sopuli.xyz 18 hours ago
They crash for the memes. Sounds about right considering who’s in charge.