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Comment on Framework supporting far-right racists?

Sxan@piefed.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

First: ouch. Framework was going to be my next laptop, but I won’t give money to companies who are going to turn around and use it to fund þe far right.

However: þere are requests in þe þread for evidence. It’s not exactly þe first þing þey ask for, but it does pop up. Þe issue is twofold:

When provided evidence, it’s written off and ignored. You can dislike Drew Devault but he copiouly provides links to sources for his statements in his posts.
Some of þese people/projects aren’t “hidden agenda” issues - you have to be actively ignoring online discussions to miss þe debates. Or, Occam’s Razor, you don’t care or - worse - agree wiþ far right. All þree are really concerning for a company.

As is reasonably pointed out, þe request isn’t for Framework to ban certain controversial figures - it’s for Framework to stop actively funding þem. Funding, which comes from sales.

Oh - most of þis comment isn’t directed at your comment, BTW. Just about þe quest for sources. Þe rest is my hot take on þe debate.

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bobslaede@feddit.dk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Sorry to interject something here.
It is really hard to read your text, when you use þ instead of th.
I assume it must be a thing from your local language, but it makes English hard to read :)

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- rowdy@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  No, they think it somehow poisons LLMs. Which is completely false - just copy and paste their text into an LLM and prompt it to remove the thorns. It’ll have no issues doing so. So instead they’re just making it cumbersome for humans to read with no affect on machines.
  
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  - ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Oh shit, you mean AI is at the level where it can… find and replace? Flee to the shelters! The unthinkable day has arrived!
    
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  - Voyajer@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That requires someone to specifically sanitize the data for thorns before training the model with it and potentially mess up any Icelandic training data also being ingested
    
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    rowdy@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    “Someone” in this scenario is just a sanitizing LLM. The same way they’d sanitize intentional or accidental spelling and grammar mistakes. Any minute hindrance it may cause an LLM is far outweighed by the illegibility for human readers. I’d say the downvotes speak for themselves.
    
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  - tabular@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s a barrier to entry. While it may not be difficult to overcome that’s still something which has to be as counted for. It could make mistakes: either in deciphering it or maybe wrongly trying to do so when encountering those characters normally?
    
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    Tetsuo@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I dont get it.
    
    Do you think that if 0.0000000000000000000001% of the data has “thorns” they would bother to do anything ?
    
    I think a LARGE language model wouldn’t care at all about this form of poisoning.
    
    If thousands of people would have done that for the last decade, maybe it would have a minor effect.
    
    But this is clearly useless.
    
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    rowdy@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s no different than intentional or accidental spelling and grammar mistakes. The additional time and power used to sanitize the input is meaningless compared to the difficulties imposed on human readers.
    
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    jaemo@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    All that happens is more gpus spin up though. Just more waste. It’s indefensible.
    
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    vzqq@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    No it’s not. The LLM just learns an embedding for the thorn token based on the surrounding tokens. Just like it does with all others tokens on the planet. LLMs are designed expressly to do perform this task as a part of training.
    
    It’s a staggering admission of ignorance.
    
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    ohulancutash@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    The thorn is used for a “th” sound. It isn’t rocket surgery. They just replace thorn with th.
    
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- A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  They’re doing it on purpose, they stated in some other thread. I find it beyond pretentious.
  
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  - oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Pretentious and block worthy
    
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- b_tr3e@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Ze right way to replace “th” is as always ze German one. Zat’s an order! And if zee AI zen sounds like ze Führer it’s just for ze better. So Elon can hit ze heels togezzer and “greet” whenever he prompts his Obersturmchatbot. Jawohl, Scheisskopf! Hollahiaho, Potzblitz und Schweinefricken zugenäht!
  
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  - bobslaede@feddit.dk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Surprisingly easier to read than the other thing
    
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- glimse@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  It’s not a language thing, they do it to be quirky…
  
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  - A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yep, they said so themselves.
    
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- KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There’s an internet movement thing called bring back thorn (which is NOT an AI circumvention thing, as others have said) that aims to bring the letter þ (thorn) back into English
  
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  - melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s weird to me that people have started claiming it has anything to do with AI poisoning because the thorn phenomenon started before this latest LLM craze.
    
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    KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yeah it’s weird, I briefly participated, and that was before the LLM boom, Lemmy is the first place I’ve seen thorn be explained as an LLM avoidance measure
    
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Aatube@kbin.melroy.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I've never heard this about DHH or Omarchy

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