I’m too uneducated on politics to even know what left and right means. Where do I land
Comment on Political discourse
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
YourMomsTrashman@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 5 weeks ago
Well they are slightly vague terms, so please don’t feel stupid. A shocking amount of people who think they know, don’t know.
Left wing politics are generally about a rejection of hierarchy of people. Consequently, they tend to be interested in an international community because we are all the same and deserve the same. As freedom is something that everyone wants for themselves, the left tend to be in favor of an equally free community, e.g. freedom to love.
Right wing politica are generally about hierarchy of people. But not because the hierarchy is necessarily the point, but it tend to be in favor of maintaining the current state, Which just happens to be hierarchical. And usually everything get viewed from a hierarchical pov. E.g. nationalism is a hierarchical view of country and people, your country and its people above other country and their people.
Obviously you could point at the historical stance of us republicans that they want a small government and argue that a small government creates less of 2 class citizens, the law markers and the citizens. But the left would point out that a small government just enables the powerful people to exploit the weak people and create more 2 class citizens.
On the left: The strong hierarchy in the previous attempts of “communism” is the reason why some people will say that true communism was never tried. Other will argue that you need a little bit of authority to run a communustic state.
So the whole thing is a little more complex than “freedom” and “restrictions” and who supports what “restrictions” when.
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
Right: in favor of privately owned means of production.
Left: in favor of publicly owned means of production.HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
might need to back up a little. personal, private, and public ownership are different things in one of the areas i worked in. same distinction? personal property is still legal, just privately held businesses not so much. brain’s fuzzy, am i remembering right?
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
Firstly this concept only applies to means of production, as in the stuff that is used to produce stuff which could be sold. So e. g. a sewing machine.
Without getting into the weeds:
a. Personal: You own and operate the sewing machine, you pay for the resources consumed and own the item produced. (Good)
b. Private: You own the sewing machine but someone else operates it. You pay the resources consumed, the laborer a previously agreed upon amount and own the item they produced. (bad)
c. Public: the public owns the sewing machine and pays for the resources consumed. The laborer is paid the value of their work. That is, the value of the item produced minus the value of the resources consumed. (Very good)
How “the public” and “the value” are determined is the source of leftist infighting (anarchists vs marxist-leninist). But since both agree that private ownership needs to be abolished the call is for leftist unity to stand together against the people that currently own the means of production privately (the bourgeoisie) and exploit those that have to sell their laborforce in order to survive (the proletariat).
Juice@midwest.social 5 weeks ago
Most people have confused politics. If you want to land somewhere you need to educate yourself and develop principles so that instead of not knowing where you’ll land, you’ll know exactly where you stand
jaupsinluggies@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
Six strawmen in a single post! Well done, that must be some kind of record!
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Reeeeeeeeeee I spouted centrist nonsense in a leftist space and I’m getting ratio’d reeeeeee
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 5 weeks ago
The ratio is not enough.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
It is clever, you see, that any disagreement must be done online, therefore reinforcing the premise of the meme.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Can I be a leftist without being a tankie then?
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Yes? You do realize tankies are a minority group and that in many nations “leftist” is just a normal political position?
I’m honestly not sure what you’re trying to say here
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
To me it looks like you’re trying to paint everyone who’s not a Nazi or a tankie as an ‘enlightened centrist’.
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
🤷 try glasses
finitebanjo@piefed.world 5 weeks ago
I think they're interpreting your response to the meme as "centrism bad" while the meme in question only offers Nazi, Tankie, or Centrist. These sort of mixups happen in these discussions where the implied context is just so massive.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
The vast majority of communists globally are “tankies”. I know that Westerners don’t consider non-westerners to be “real” though
Juice@midwest.social 5 weeks ago
Define tankie? What is this based on?
Tippy@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Good thing being left of center is far more nuanced than communism, then.
Also, not going to get into a debate about whether certain people should be considered people or whatever you’re baiting, sounds like fascism to me.
TheMinister@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Trying anarchism. Goes down smooth
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
i’ve known too many people who went anarchist > ancap > asshole > sovcit. I’m sure it works well for you, but i feel like it’s playing with
fireblack tar heroinTheMinister@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Say what. No one I know has ever gone down that route. Anarchism is the furthest reach from ancap or sovcit.
I guess I and my friends have the antidote: read some actual theory. You couldn’t possibly agree with theory then go ancap. Sounds like you’re describing YouTube anarchists.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
tankie is, as i understand it, a combination of authoritarianism, leftism, and some weird nostalgia for the soviet union i’m not entirely sure i’ve just been casually trying to pick stuff up.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
That’s more likely to be Nationalist Bolshevism. The correct term is should be ‘NazBol’ and they’re nationalistic right wingers.
Keep in mind some users on Lemmy use the term ‘tankie’ to include anyone with opposition to capitalism and will argue to include anyone who is pro-palestinian or even anti-war ironically.
But those users just so happen to be critics of the Nuremburg Trial verdicts, so their opinions matter less than the NazBols to begin with.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
i remember talking about the nuremburg trials with some… now that i think about of it most of them were lawyer friends, and i only have basic education about the nuremburg trials. a few of them have studied them in depth, and now that i think about it the only criticism i ever heard about the verdict was, if you’ll allow me to paraphrase, “you’re going to spend your whole life disappointed if you keep expecting everything to be perfect”.
Juice@midwest.social 5 weeks ago
Yes, you can even be a communist without being a tankie.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
Not now that the term has expanded to mean everything to the left of Kamala Harris.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Absolutely. There are numerous strains of leftist philosophy that are anti-authoritarian.