Sweden took in more refugees than it had infrastructure to help integrate with. Swedes are culturally insular so when there were friction points the Swedish reaction is pull back. This leads to isolation. That lead to ghettos and a perfect breading ground for crime and gangs. It’s mainly Kurds and Somalis pushing cocaine that fueling a turf war. Because of Swedens laws protecting minors the gangs have figured out that paying them for hits on rivals and their families had little penalty. This started in Denmark as their testing ground. Sweden is trying to pass laws which would effectively expel the minor and their families for these kinds of crimes, but it’s a reactionary policy which won’t solve the underlying problems. There’s no simple quick fix here.
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
This article is fucking crazy, what the hell is wrong with Sweden now?
Earlier in April, two people were killed in a suspected gang fight in Gothenburg, while a renowned rapper was shot dead in a gang battle in the city in December.
Since when are there Swede rappers? That is weird enough in itself.
I get that drugs are largely the issue, but these people live in a country with a laundry list of social welfare programs that most people could only dream of. Free healthcare, free education at all levels, and a boatload of economic support initiatives for people in poverty. They literally are living life on easy mode compared to the rest of the poor people in the world for the most part. Why do they turn to drugs in the first place? It clearly shouldnt be out of hopelessness for their situation…
sprack@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Sweden took in more refugees than it had infrastructure to help integrate with.
To be clear, this was a choice. The amount of disinvestment since the 80s in social housing, schooling and other social programs has been truly remarkable.
Swedes are culturally insular so when there were friction points the Swedish reaction is pull back. This leads to isolation.
This is largely bullshit in my experience - people use it as a convenient explanation for what can adequately be explained by other forces
This leads to isolation. That lead to ghettos and a perfect breading ground for crime and gangs.
There’s no intentional isolation on the part of immigrants as much as there’s a diminishing social housing stock/social housing being sold out to slumlords.
People don’t intentionally select high crime areas to live in - they are not given the option to live somewhere else.
Because of Swedens laws protecting minors the gangs have figured out that paying them for hits on rivals and their families had little penalty. This started in Denmark as their testing ground.
Using kids for gang hits is common in other places as well, because kids get more lenient sentences in other places too. See the U.S for an example on this trend being present earlier in history.
sprack@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Sweden took in more refugees than it had infrastructure to help integrate with.
To be clear, this was a choice. The amount of disinvestment since the 80s in social housing, schooling and other social programs has been truly remarkable.
100% agree. This started with Feldt’s “Framtid för Sverige” which started the shift towards privatization arguing that labor costs were unsustainable. Then deregulation of investment and real-estate markets in the 90s and finally the removal of arvsskatt (2004) and förmögenhetsskatt (2007) there were enormous leaps in wealth inequality at the same time as sapping the tax coffers which had built all the social programs it was known for.
Swedes are culturally insular so when there were friction points the Swedish reaction is pull back. This leads to isolation.
This is largely bullshit in my experience - people use it as a convenient explanation for what can adequately be explained by other forces
I assume you’re implying racism. There’s absolutely latent racism in there as well. But even if you look like a Swede, speak swedish, but have an accent or dress in a way that stands out or break some of the other tenants of jantelagen people will steer away. People of non-european descent just have it 10x harder.
This leads to isolation. That lead to ghettos and a perfect breading ground for crime and gangs.
There’s no intentional isolation on the part of immigrants as much as there’s a diminishing social housing stock/social housing being sold out to slumlords.
People don’t intentionally select high crime areas to live in - they are not given the option to live somewhere else.
I wasn’t saying it was completely intentional, I was saying it was part of the insular nature of Swedes. If you’re talking about kommun housing then I agree, that’s procedural, but it does require someone who knows the process. But if you want to rent second-hand, you need to meet that person and if you’re not a Swede many people will require a Swede to vouch for you.
Because of Swedens laws protecting minors the gangs have figured out that paying them for hits on rivals and their families had little penalty. This started in Denmark as their testing ground.
Using kids for gang hits is common in other places as well, because kids get more lenient sentences in other places too. See the U.S for an example on this trend being present earlier in history.
Its just new in the sense that it’s the first time for Swede to have experienced it.
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
I assume you’re implying racism. There’s absolutely latent racism in there as well. But even if you look like a Swede, speak swedish, but have an accent or dress in a way that stands out or break some of the other tenants of jantelagen people will steer away. People of non-european descent just have it 10x harder.
I wasn’t primarily implying racism, but it’s probably part of the equation. I was moreso thinking about other forces mentioned in my reply, like the very large issue of complete housing market malfunction.
I assume you’re implying racism. There’s absolutely latent racism in there as well. But even if you look like a Swede, speak swedish, but have an accent or dress in a way that stands out or break some of the other tenants of jantelagen people will steer away. People of non-european descent just have it 10x harder.
I get the feeling that this might be a more rural attribute, but that might be my personal experience just being different.
I wasn’t saying it was completely intentional, I was saying it was part of the insular nature of Swedes. If you’re talking about kommun housing then I agree, that’s procedural, but it does require someone who knows the process. But if you want to rent second-hand, you need to meet that person and if you’re not a Swede many people will require a Swede to vouch for you.
I think this is just another aspect of the housing crisis being the everything crisis - there’s no real need for second hand renting in a paradigm of complete housing abundance, as we had at the end of Miljonprogrammet.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
I think the Nordic countries get held up as these utopias when that’s actually far from the truth. I have a Swedish friend on a disability pension, and I’m also on the same sort of pension here in Australia. She gets a bit less than half of what I do a month. It’s not like she has other social programs that make up for it really either. We both have access to similar healthcare, I think I’m paying less for meds, I have much better disability insurance covering other things like support work and mobility aids.
I think some people just have this false impression of places like Sweden. I guess they look pretty great if you’re from the US but yeah…
hector@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Plus they have basically taxed alcohol out of use. Gotten rid of paper money, there is a lot to be desired.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Which probably has the same effect as prohibition in the US, with huge financial incentive for smuggling and black markets. Another stupid thing, every half-brained goon can make alcohol unless you forbid fruits and sugar.
hector@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
I have been brewing my own for a few years now, drinking moderately every day this year all homebrewed for the most part. It is so much cheaper. And less running to the store. Plus there is no record of you being a frequent user of alcohol when you brew it yourself. Which in the US could very well be used against you on me law enforcement Information Network they use.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
It doesn’t really. The only smuggling is for yourself in form of alcohol tourism where those living close to borders drive across and stock up on it.
Alcohol is still available in Sweden, just more expensive. Hardly anyone turns to the black market to get like 30% off.
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
This is not accurate whatsoever, Sweden has similar levels of alcohol consumption per capita to Spain, where alcohol is not expensive.
hector@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
It is accurate that it is tax really heavy. Is it just in a bar or all together? But it is like 10 euros a beer or something I read.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Meh, Australia is the same on both these counts, though alcohol is still very heavily used. Those things are objectively less of a pawblem than welfare programs not being liveable.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
as hard as it is to accept, a lot of the issues were imported by immigration and a failure to make sure that the immigrants get integrated into society. from what i know, there's a pretty deep divide there, with immigrants being disadvantaged in society and the swedes themselves feeling overwhelmed by a flood of immigrants. Sadly that's a good substrate for gang violence and yeah, like you said, it's stupid.
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
>account less than a day old
>it’s immigrants faultyeah, alright bestie
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I mean, I know it’s not popular but Hitler had a legitimate point… /S
Gross
Plebcouncilman@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Rampant immigration good, morally correct and has no consequences ever
You see this is the problem. In real life, two things are often true at the same time. Like not all immigrants being criminals but immigrants committing violent crimes at a higher rate than the native population. I mean if you are gonna claim that the cause isn’t immigration then at least provide a counter reason. The optics are not great statistically:
Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Rampant immigration good, morally correct and has no consequences ever
Yes, actually, I unironically agree with your strawman of someone else's position: people have a fundamental right to freedom of movement.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Yeah, that was my point. The asylum system in Sweden was very permissive, but left the immigrants stranded. Those coming into the land did not have the education or skills that were needed in sweden, and there weren't enough programs to treat PTSD and educate those coming into the country. That means you have a lot of traumatized people sitting around without jobs. Those Gangs now are the second or third generation of immigrants that are still trapped in this limbo, getting traumatized by their disillusioned and STILL NOT therapied parents.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
i did not say it's the fault of the immigrants, its a failure to integrate them, which places the blame on both sides. It's a fact that a lot of immigrants came into sweden, which was a nice thing from the swedes, but then the immigrants weren't given the same chances in society the natives had. I am not a nazi apologist, get some reading comprehension.
I just switched over from db0 ( https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/u/a_wild_mimic_appears ).
princessnorah@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
I am not a nazi apologist, get some reading comprehension.
I can’t find where I called you one.
Thordros@hexbear.net 3 weeks ago
I knew it! It’s the sinister musliamics doing all the murders! Pure as white snow Swedish sweet baby girls could never do a crime.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Get some reading comprehension. Its a failure to integrate the immigrants, which is as much an error by the natives as the immigrants. This creates a parallel society, where a lot of people traumatized by war and crime are left to fend for themselves in a society that doesn't give them the means to work inside of that society. Those immigrants didn't have the education or knowledge to get good jobs, and the swedish society failed in giving them the therapy and education they would have needed to succeed. The gang fighters now are their children, mixed with the underclass of the native swedes.
ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 3 weeks ago
Get some reading comprehension
Is always the first thing a prickly redditor says when they write something stupid, and someone comes along and comprehends it
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Since when are there Swede rappers? That is weird enough in itself.
What are you even trying to imply here? Rap has been a thing in Sweden for decades, what’s weird about it?
I get that drugs are largely the issue, but these people live in a country with a laundry list of social welfare programs that most people could only dream of. Free healthcare, free education at all levels, and a boatload of economic support initiatives for people in poverty. They literally are living life on easy mode compared to the rest of the poor people in the world for the most part. Why do they turn to drugs in the first place? It clearly shouldnt be out of hopelessness for their situation…
We’ve been dealing with rising inequality in Sweden for the last ~50 years. We’ve also had large amounts of immigration, with these immigrants in many ways having become second class citizens, getting concentrated into the diminishing stock of social housing/slum lord-controlled areas. We also have an unusually restrictive policy against drugs, the sales of which then becoming one of the few lucrative options for someone growing up in a poor area.
It’s similar motivations to what happens in the U.S - if you’re poor, some of the only realistic options for making it big from your perspective is either a career in professional sports (see Zlatan Ibrahimovic) or drugs (see various gang bosses)
This whole situation is ridiculous. It seems like there is some underlying culture glorifying the violence that occurs in countries where people dont have any of what the Swedes have available to them. None of them need to deal drugs to survive, or commit acts of violence. None of them even need to be using drugs out of hopelessness for their future. Its like the equivalent of suburban American kids with college funds wanting to be gangbangers because they think its cool. Fucking stupid
It’s not necessarily that they pursue these “careers” out of a need to fuel a drug addiction, although that may certainly become a motivation for maintaining it - along with the threat of violence if leaving.
Some of the largest consumers of drugs in Sweden are the richest people, having lots of money to spend on cocaine. Again, a similar situation to the U.S in many ways here.
stink@lemmygrad.ml 3 weeks ago
I will not tolerate this Yung Lean slander!
witty_username@feddit.nl 3 weeks ago
I expect that this might me due to functional police and criminal investigation systems. Less functional countries, which are in the majority, will likely fail to find the right perpetrator, fail to report on it, blame the crime on the wrong person, ignore the crime, etc.
hector@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Those suburban kids emulate street gangs while the leaders of those street gangs emulate the fathers of those suburban kids in the corporate structure.
Skua@kbin.earth 3 weeks ago
Unless something drastic has happened in just 2025 that isn't reflected in the data yet, the actual murder rate in Sweden hasn't really changed much in the past 30 years. It's high by Nordic standards, middle of the road for European standards, and low by global standards. Sweden is still just a normal country with normal human problems, even if it is very prosperous and has a lot of sensible government policies
That there are Swedish rappers definitely isn't that weird either. I don't even enjoy rap and I've heard of a Greenlandic rapper. I've got a Togolese metal band on my main playlist. There was a Black American blues singer who went to Tuva in Russia to learn throat singing and got nicknamed "Earthquake" becauseof how low his voice was. People like music from all over
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 3 weeks ago
Yeah, the normal population can still live a normal life. But the murder rate of the 20-24 y.o. where both parents have an immigration background is 10 times higher than the normal pop. (176 p. 100k to 16 p. 100k), which is pretty fucking high.