Comment on What's the best way to respond to someone who says "transracial is just as valid as transgender"?
Almacca@aussie.zone 9 months ago
Sounds like someone just looking to pick a fight. Disengage.
That said, I reckon as long as they’re not hurting anyone, people can be whatever they like.
I would say never disengage. We’ve all lost so much disengaging especially if the argument is difficult. It leaves the argument unchallenged and if you can’t answer it and you feel strongly about trans issues what did you think someone casually viewing it would think.
We need better arguments and we need honesty. If it’s a good argument, it’s a good argument denying it out of feels only weakens the entire thing.
You can't rationally debate someone out of a position they didn't reach through rational consideration.
So you allow them to influence other people with their ideas?
It’s stuff like this why people in real life all share the same opinion on trans issues and other right wing issues. It’s this stuff that has allowed their arguments to spread. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what you were supposed to be doing. You gave them a red carpet and helped contribute to the spread of their propaganda by disengaging. Changing their opinion was not ever said as a goal. You need to challenge their opinion to show it is badly formed. If it isn’t then you need to evaluate yours.
Disengaging does not help spread propaganda. Engaging and giving horrible ideas a platform does help spread propaganda.
Your “debate bro” advice is about ten years out of date.
So you allow them to influence other people with their ideas?
I’m prepared to trust other people’s intelligence to see through it, and if they can’t, fuck them as well.
So you allow them to influence other people with their ideas?
No, absolutely not. I run instances to give gender diverse folk safe spaces. I ban transphobes the instant they appear, I don't debate them. Offline, I'm visible, active and proud. I am an volunteer at my local parkrun, I've spoken openly with people at my workplace, I've hosted a queer community radio show, I host a vodcast, and I used to be active in organising events for my local gender diverse community. Because what gets people to change their minds, is an emotional connection with the group they're targeting. When they start to see us as people, just the same as them, then they start to make choices that aren't harmful to us, and they start to wind back their own arguments.
Pushing back is incredibly important, but debating them isn't effective. Like most people, when confronted with debate points in regards to a topic they hold on to for emotional reasons, they will shift goal posts, and only see the things that validate what they already believe, whilst ignoring the things that challenge it. When they get to the point where they're ready to challenge their ideas (because their emotional position has shifted) then, lots of the talking points you would normally debate become relevant, but by that stage, it's a discussion, not a debate.
Absolutely. If people like the idiot this post is referring to are allowed to spew bullshit without push back, then other idiots will believe it and spread it. These people need to be shamed and publicly corrected for their bullshit stance that can hurt others. I say hurt others, because an idea like this can be used to delegitimize transgender people.
My second paragraph covered that, I thought.
BassTurd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Their argument indirectly hurts transgender people. It’s akin to when BLM (the movement, not the corrupt organization) was big and to counter it, conservatives parroted All Lives Matter. I’d say using the term transracial is arguably worse, because it’s all bullshit, while technically All Lives Matter is true, but it’s bad faith argument. I personally feel it’s the duty of rational people to fight against that sort of speak.
Almacca@aussie.zone 9 months ago
And you don’t engage with bad faith arguments. Just tell them to fuck off and grow a brain.
BassTurd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’ll say fuck off without saying fuck off as to not get my shit removed, but bad faith arguments still need to be refuted so that ignorant people don’t only see something like that and believe it’s true. The amount of effort put into that only needs to be enough so that there exists a counter point.