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Comment on A bit of salt makes it taste more savory

Fascists are not empowered by political apathy. If that were the case, you’d be able to provide evidence that states or nations with low voter turnout always turn fascist. 80% of voters turned out in 1932 when the Nazis became the most powerful party. Political apathy can be a result of burgeoning fascism - among other things. How do you think fascism arose in Germany? People being lazy?

Chalking up fascism to poltical apathy is what happens when you fail to look at fascism as a function of class dynamics and class conflict - and furthermore, fail to see the generations-old pattern of regulatory agencies being captured, special interests dominating political commentary, rampant lobbying, decaying education, wages being suppressed, healthcare being denied, transportation services rendered useless, etc…

If, at the end of this devolution into fascism, your only takeaway is “Damn lazy tankies and russian spies destroyed America!”, then you haven’t learned your lesson, and you’ve fallen in perfect lockstep with your liberal forerunners who made the exact same mistakes.

It’s telling that you folks never engage when leftists point out that when the democrats had a choice between slowing fascism and committing genocide on Palestinians, they chose to do genocide all for sweet AIPAC dollars.

The simple fact is that Biden’s and Kamala’s constituents wanted an end to genocide. Biden and Kamala ignored these constituents. Biden and Kamala lost. That couldn’t be a more democratic outcome; it’s more American than Apple pie. If you say “fuck you” to your constituents, it’s a safe bet you’ll lose them, and if this is a calculus that some dumb ass like me can make, you know that higher levels of democratic leadership were aware of the risks and chose to take them anyway. The democrats are controlled opposition.

If you are a liberal reading this thread and are starting to see holes pop up in the logic and reasoning of your colleagues, or have correctly identified that the liberals are ill-equipped to deal with this devolution, I’d encourage you to learn what Marxism really is - beyond the spark notes you got from your conservative history teacher in high school.

socialistra.org/edu/

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answersplease77@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
This was really shown when Cory Booker was shouting for 25 hrs about “This is not moral… We fight corruption… We dont have money for healthcare. We dont have money for our veterans ans education…” the next morning he passes $9Billion aid to Israel because AIPAC gave him $900,000

www.wsws.org/en/articles/2025/04/…/donh-a05.html

www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&…

Morality and corruption my ass. Cory Booker is a hypocrite spinless clown who does not stand for shit. You give him money and he will dance a circus just like he is paid to.

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witnessbolt@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
“I didn’t vote for the lady who wouldn’t commit to stopping Israel (but I knew wouldn’t shred the economy)

even though the alternative was a man very openly supportive of Israel and is now actively deporting pro-Palestine and providing Israel all the weapons it needs

'Cuz obviously both parties are the same”

Quite frankly, I have no respect for anyone who took this position. Whether influenced by propaganda or… whatever… I honestly don’t know how you can say you didn’t see what a threat Trump would be (not you personally), especially in retrospect.

I’m again going to push back and say that a massive propaganda campaign, similar to 2016, is what won them the election. Crypto dumped $146 million into he election. Elon personally put something like $250 million in, AND did the “raffles” to get people to vote (not raffles, it was a lie, admitted in court)… AND he openly used Twitter to influence the election. Zuck is in with the same guys that Musk is – Thiel, etc (I say “in” loosely for Musk) and if you don’t think they also used FB you’re a fool.

But propaganda isn’t an excuse, because it requires some lack of not intentionally trying to expose yourself to new & different sources of news, but more importantly, different perspectives. And a complete detachment or ignorance from Trump’s first presidency.

MAGA was always a traitor party.

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Rhoeri@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
bOtH siDeS tHo!

So you didn’t vote for the “gEnOciDeR”, how’s that working out for you?

Take a look around at the paradise that your inaction has caused.

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- SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  It’s still shocking to me that people were stupid enough to believe that Jim Crow Joe would be a remedy for fascism in the first the place.
  
  It’s doubly shocking to me that you’ve already forgot about Roe v Wade, most deportations in history (even more than now), building and expansion of prisons/cop cities, etc. and then feel entitled enough to be this fucking glib.
  
  You have not been paying attention. If you believe in electoralism then stop punching down and redirect your rage at those who actually have power to change things within that system.
  
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  - Rhoeri@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    What’s shocking are all the fucking dipshits that think doing nothing at all is the best course of action to stop a fascist from overthrowing democracy.
    
    And what’s more shocking, is that their smug entitlement is so strong that they refuse to acknowledge their fault in the shitshow that is going on around them.
    
    For fuck’s sake! Even some of the conservatives have come forward to admit they fucked up! But no, rank and file of those ignorant little shithead protest voting assholes are still folding their arms and yet, have the audacity to blame people that fucking voted?
    
    Shocking indeed.
    
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    Diva@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    And what’s more shocking, is that their smug entitlement is so strong that they refuse to acknowledge their fault in the shitshow that is going on around them.
    
    Kamala won my state, you’re just mad that I don’t have the religious faith on voting and American ‘democracy’ that you do.
    
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- Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  So you didn’t vote for the “gEnOciDeR”, how’s that working out for you?
  
  So you stuck with genocide for genocide’s sake. Working out great for you. You get your genocide and you were always going to blame your left for you getting the only thing any centrist has ever wanted.
  
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  - Rhoeri@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Didn’t you vote for Kamala? gENoCiDeR!
    
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    Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I voted for her because I had no less terrible option. Congratulations that you got to vote for a candidate that agrees with you that there should be no living Palestinians. Regardless of which candidate you voted for.
    
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    Ferrous@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Do you think there has been an ongoing genocide in Gaza since Oct 7?
    
    The way you poke fun at the term is psychotic, frankly. I.e. “HolOCauST”
    
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HalfSalesman@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

Fascists are not empowered by political apathy

Fascists are empowered by political apathy in a first past the post election system. Which we have.

And its not just tankies. You guys are an influence but you aren’t the sole driver of this result of low turnout obviously.

This is something many clownishly-apolitical individuals that aren’t tankies understand and still choose not to vote because they also, like tankies, think both parties are the same. I live in a deeply rural area and commute to a small city and I’ve encountered these morons first hand in both places. Typically these are poorly educated impoverished people who feel left behind by perceived elites (not just rich people but basically any people smart enough to work low paying white collar like myself). Who don’t realize they’re letting things get worse for them and now will end up materially worse off and even some of them will end up dead as a result.

And in so far that a person can deserve their own misfortune, they will. Because they either know or very much ought to know what was at stake and did not give a fuck.

I actually think most tankies will be fine though. You guys are educated enough that you’re probably not on average nearly as impoverished as these types. It’ll just be the dipshit apolitical underclass of people who will start feeling things get noticeably worse.

Maybe it wont be too late for them to be moved by their impending suffering and react to it in a productive way but at this point I’m kind of over it. I’m ambivalent at this point.

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OmegaLemmy@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
You’re correct, but in the end those same tankies are also the ones that want a fascist state because they’re basically a capitalist state on the brink of collapse – a good ground for revolution that tankies wish for.

This would not have happened if democrats had true back bone and a moral structure beyond being the slightly less insane alternative to republicans, until now, where republicans have shifted to radicalism, either knowing that democrats don’t have much fight or allying internally with democrats, allowing for this take over to start from the roots and corrupt it way down the chain

This was inevitable with the system USA is built on top of, you only deny the inevitable by 4-8 years if democrats had won, preserving the status quo and begrudgingly agreeing to public protests to not suffer what essentially happened now. Which they failed, because they were begrudgingly doing so.

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- Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  You’re correct, but in the end those same tankies are also the ones that want a fascist state because they’re basically a capitalist state on the brink of collapse – a good ground for revolution that tankies wish for.
  
  This is the dumbest shit ever and not what we believe. Y’all don’t ever listen to the things we actually say, you just make shit up and repeat it to each other until it becomes accepted as obviously true, regardless of any basis in reality.
  
  A fascist state is not “good ground for revolution.” There have been many far-right states that have successfully hunted down and exterminated the left and survived for quite a long while. And the conditions in the US are such that in an armed conflict the right would obviously have a major advantage. Should conditions decline, it’s far more likely that we’d have a right-wing revolution than a left-wing one.
  
  The problem is that conditions are declining under both Republicans and Democrats. Neither party offers any possibility of actually halting or reversing the decline, or averting any of the many, many crises, some of which are looming and some of which are actively happening. Liberals are fully content to accept this state of affairs for some reason - they just want a more gradual decline which will still lead to crises, the far-right gaining strength and power, and the complete extermination of the left and vulnerable populations. As long as that gets pushed back 5 or 10 years, perfectly acceptable to them, and worth sacrificing any attempts to actually fix the problems - which is what us “tankies” would prefer to happen.
  
  If I were an “accelerationist,” looking to bring about a fascist state on the bizarre logic that it would somehow be “good ground” for a left-wing revolution, then why would I have a problem with either side? Conditions will continue to decline regardless of whether a Democrat or Republican is in charge. What, am I just so impatient that I couldn’t wait a few more years? If that’s what I believed, I’d just disengage from politics and not give a shit what happens, confident in the fact that the inevitable decline will bring about socialism, somehow. Doesn’t really seem worth the effort.
  
  Unfortunately, this “accelerationist” concept doesn’t actually track with history. People have lived - and do, currently live in worse conditions than we have in the US, often for generations. Slavery persisted for centuries, and yes there were slave revolts but they were often disorganized and put down. This idea that bad conditions automatically create successful left-wing revolutions makes no sense to anyone who’s actually capable of thinking beyond a meme level.
  
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  - OmegaLemmy@discuss.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    can you humor me as to answer these questions, I was going to ask a few questions but I am missing context
    
    Do you support the 50501 movement?
    
    What is the general consensus in Lemmygrad/Hexbear on the actions taken by the liberals in rallies held by Sanders and AOC?
    
    Do you consider ending support for Israel to be step 1 for preventing the far right take over?
    
    Do you believe it is necessary for the EU to end their support to Ukraine, which you consider to be a US funded puppet state formed out of a coup, and make new deals with Russia against the US to combat rising fascism?
    
    What could be a possible path forward for the world to take, not for revolution but to quell far right ideology?
    
    Do you believe that EU is an obstacle for Revolution, or do you believe a similar system to EU without a neo-liberal platform to be ideal?
    
    Would you like to add on more about Tankies/Authleft that is generally misunderstood
    
    Would you like to talk about anything relevant about the previous questions that I missed, and is important to understanding the picture?
    
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MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Liberals are controlled opposition, it’s simple political science 101.

But what makes you think the Left will be aby more successful ?

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gregs_gumption@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Lol what a weak manifesto.

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- MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Then here’s a stronger one www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHSkxaqfO38
  
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  - nsrxn@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    what did contrapoints do?
    
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