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Comment on 'Meta Torrented over 81 TB of Data Through Anna's Archive, Despite Few Seeders' * TorrentFreak

Meta has open sourced every single one of their llms. They essentially gave birth to the whole open llm scene.

If they start losing all these lawsuits, the whole scene dies and all those nifty models and their fine-tunes get removed from huggingface, to be repackaged and sold to us with a subscription fee. All the other domestic open source players will close down.

The copyright crew aren’t the good guys here, even if it’s spearheaded by Sarah Silverman and Meta has traditionally played the part of the villain.

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LodeMike@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Where is the source content then

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- Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Annas archive. Keep up. Pffff.
  
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antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
If the existence of open source LLMs hinges on the benevolence of one of the few most cancerous tech companies in the world, maybe they’re not really worth it?

This isn’t about “heroes” and “villains”. Facebook has been and has stayed the “villain”, they’ve done something colossally illegal that any mere mortal would be sued to death for (by an another “villainous” instance, the media system that has made piracy a necessity in the first place), and they’re hoping to get away with it simply on technicalities and by having more money for better lawyers. Rules are rules, if you don’t like them maybe Facebook should try to change them (and not just for themselves, but for the rest of us too)?

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- Grimy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The existence hinges on the rewriting and strengthening of copyright laws by data brokers and other cancerous tech companies. It’s not Meta vs us, but Meta and us vs Google and Openai.
  
  They are being sued for copyright infringement when it’s clearly highly transformative. The rules are fine as is, Meta isn’t the one trying to change them. You seem to imply I should go against my own interests and support frivolous lawsuits that will negatively impact me just because Meta is a boogeyman.
  
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  - antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    It’s not Meta vs us, but opensource vs Google and Openai.
    
    I never said it’s Meta vs us. It’s Meta vs (in this particular case) the book publishing industry. You can’t reduce the whole situation to open source vs closed source, there’s other “axes” at play here as well.
    
    They are being sued for copyright infringement when it’s clearly highly transformative
    
    They downloaded the entire Libgen and more. Going by the traditional explanations of piracy, that’s like stealing several hundred bookstores worth of books all at once, and then claiming it’s alright because your own writing is not plagiarised from any of the books you’ve stolen. (Piracy is not the same as actual stealing of course, but countless people have been being legally bullied and ruined with that logic.) Meta also got its data from Internet Archive; unless they only obtained their materials that are public domain or under a similar license, they’ve obtained a lot of material that IA has been sentenced for allowing unlimited access to back in 2020 (if you’ve followed the Hachette v. Internet Archive case). The brainfucking conclusion of your and Facebook’s case is that using illegal services is perfectly legal as long as you sufficiently transform the results of the illegal activity.
    
    The rules are fine as is
    
    Actually they’re not. Copyright law is insanely restrictive, and I don’t think you’ve dealt much with media if you think it’s fine (but I don’t wish to delve into this further as it’s beyond the scope of discussion).
    
    Meta isn’t the one trying to change them
    
    Of course they’re not trying to change them, that’s the point, they will get away with breaking them while being perfectly fine with other actors not being able to do so.
    
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    Grimy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    All LLMs and Gen AI use data they don’t own. The Pile is all scraped or pirated info, which served as a starting point for most LLMs. Image gen is all scraped from the web. Speech to text and video gen mainly uses YouTube data.
    
    So either you put a price tag on that data, which means only a handful of companies can afford to build these tools (including Meta), or you understand that piracy is the only way for most to aquire this data but since it’s highly transformative, it isn’t breaching copyrights or directly stealing from them as piracy “normally” is.
    
    I’m being pragmatic.
    
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  - antonim@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    It’s not Meta vs us, but opensource vs Google and Openai.
    
    I never said it’s Meta vs us. It’s Meta vs (in this particular case) the book publishing industry. You can’t reduce all of modern tech and AI economy to open source vs closed source.
    
    They are being sued for copyright infringement when it’s clearly highly transformative
    
    They downloaded the entire Libgen and more. Going by the traditional explanations of piracy, that’s like stealing several hundred bookstores worth of books all at once, and then claiming it’s alright because your own writing is not plagiarised from any of the books you’ve stolen. (Piracy is not the same as actual stealing of course, but countless people have been being legally bullied and ruined with that logic.) The brainfucking conclusion of Facebook’s
    
    The rules are fine as is
    
    Actually they’re not. Copyright law is insane
    
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Telodzrum@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Nope. Get fucked

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misk@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Meta stole from everyone, including those that struggle to make ends meet, so it doesn’t matter that they gave you back some of it. Any moral qualms should evaporate when you consider that they did it to create shareholder value and the rest is philanthropy (aka pretend tax). As a socialist I believe that man is owed for his work and you can’t take from him even though technology makes it so easy.

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- General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Calling property labor, doesn’t make you a socialist.
  
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  - misk@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You’re confusing libleft with left.
    
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    General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    No. Seriously, why do you want to call yourself a socialist?
    
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- LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  As a socialist I believe intellectual property is a falsehood and technological advancement should be for the public good. Open source LLMs are for the public good.
  
  Given the options between having open source LLMs and the US Govt banning non-corpo non-proprietary LLMs and giving a free pass to people like Musk and Altman and Zucc to monopolize, I happily pick the former.
  
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  - FooBarrington@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I support FOSS LLMs, but which actually exist? Which LLMs have open-sourced all their training data?
    
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    LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Mistral? Deepseek?
    
    Not LLM but also SD.
    
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  - misk@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You’re confusing self entitlement to stuff with the left.
    
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    LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Lolwut? Public good is self-entitlement? Go read a fucking book. Communists are not pro-copyright, especially not when it only benefits the giant corpos.
    
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  - foenkyfjutschah@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Lieber Genosse, der Hype um Affirming Incompetence (AI) ist der dieser Zeit die höchste Ausdruck der Entfremdung der Menschen von sich selbst, Zeugnis des Begehrens nach und Voraussetzung also der weitergehenden Fetischisierung seines Zugriffs auf Welt. Wie jedoch Bernard Stiegler so schön bemerkte: Kein Savoir-vivre ohne Savoir-faire! Dies seien die unabdingbaren Bedingungen für die Befreiung der Menschheit aus den sich selbst angelegten Ketten zur Errichtung einer geschwisterlichen Ordnung!
    
    (now have fun w/ an LLM’s attempt of “advancement”!)
    
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- Grimy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Don’t give me that slop. No one except the biggest names are getting a dime out it once OpenAI buys up all the data and kills off their competition. It’s also highly transformative, which is perfectly legal.
  
  Copyright laws have been turned into a joke, only protecting big money and their interests.
  
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