Comment on Sweden, Norway rethink plans for cashless societies over fears that fully digital payment systems would leave them vulnerable to Russian security threats

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

• njordomir@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t like using cashless anything because I know part of the cost is my privacy. Having said that, convenience is a powerful draw and cash can be a pain, especially when you have to find a spot for small coins.

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  • shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Look into Monero. You get the benefits of digital payments, but you get the privacy of cash.

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    • chevy9294@monero.town ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I use monero online and cash offline, because no one accepts monero offline.

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      • shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        because no one accepts monero offline.

        With the XMRBazaar map this may change

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• lime@feddit.nu ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  there haven’t been card fees for end users in Sweden for many years. handling cash is a lot more expensive since you need somewhere secure to keep change, you loose time at the till handling the money, and you need to pay for someone to come pick it up. the time gained from just having the customers pay with card means businesses gladly swallow the fees.

  and yes, i’m always surprised when going abroad how much more analog everything is. the nordics and Baltic’s are generally at about the same level (with Estonia way ahead), but the rest of the continent feels like it’s 10 years behind. I was once asked if I really wanted to pay with card in a corner shop in Leipzig, since the card fee was €10.

  not that i’m a fan of the digitalisation, it makes marginalised groups even more marginalised. i see my elderly relatives struggling with it often.

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  • Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The end user didn’t pay directly, but the companies very much pay for this privilege

    Which is why Swish, and in Norway, Vipps has been a big thing. So the banks can get that revenue for themselves instead of sharing with visa / Mastercard

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• sensiblepuffin@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It’s extremely disappointing to me (admittedly in the US) that Covid seems to have obliterated any chance for a large-scale investigation on payment processors’ stranglehold on our financial systems. The fees that Visa/Mastercard/etc. charge, especially for tiny merchants with insanely low transaction numbers, are criminal.

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• brewery@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  In the EU and UK, heavy regulation, especially of Visa and MasterCard, means the fees are actually lower than the costs of handling cash. Lots of businesses want only card transactions because it works out better for them and most people don’t carry any cash so that need to offer card payments, and so it makes even less sense to offer both methods. The only industries who like cash are likely trying some form of tax evasion.

  Cleverly, they banned businesses from charging any payment fees and suddenly, businesses negotiated and found suppliers offering low payment fees. We don’t have anything like these convenience fees for paying with cards over cheque that I hear about.

  Amex still charges higher fees so many places still don’t take those cards. The value of benefits (air miles, cashback) have gone down significantly but in reality, it was essentially transferring wealth from the poor (who could never get these cards) to the rich, through these fees, so works out better overall.

  The banks here advertise that they help everyone get bank accounts and social benefits are paid into bank accounts so I assume everyone is able to get an account. However, I do wonder if some people, especially the homeless, slip through the cracks.

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  • shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Since taxation is theft, the proper thing to do is evade taxes.

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    • brewery@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I like my free healthcare, ambulances, fire fighters, roads, drivers requiring licences, drivers requiring insurance, police, trains, buses, general security, employee regulation, safety regulation, building codes, industry regulation, help overseas from consulates, so would prefer to pay a bit in taxes to get a lot back. It might not all be “perfect” but the idea of aiming for a happy and equal society is good.

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      • pirat@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Ok. The fact that you prefer it (probably because the thieve is mostly kind and generous to you) does not change the reality that it very much is theft from all those who might not agree with your societal preferences, and who did never consent to this. Since you naturally don’t have the right to forcefully take other people’s money without their consent, it’s impossible to forward that right to the state (or any person) acting on your behalf. That’s why it can logically be described as theft when a state collects taxes using violent force as a threat to anyone who won’t pay.

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• Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  In Norway and Sweden many places just doesn’t take cash. Probably been around 2 years since I last used cash

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah, we’re moving that direction in the US as well, but most places will accept it, even if they “officially” don’t, provided you ask nicely and don’t use large bills.

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• lud@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Here, many stores don’t accept cash so I assume accepting credit cards is cheaper and easier than handing cash.

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  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    At least in the US, it’s something like 3% for a business to accept cards, so they bake that into the price for everyone. So with cash, they technically make 3% more for each transaction, but they also have to manage the cash (deposit in bank, withdraw small denominations when running low, etc). Since most people are willing to use credit, it’s simpler, though not necessarily cheaper to just accept digital payments, especially when you just need a small dongle for your phone to accept payments.

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