I mean, you picked the most disgusting show this season and said “wow, how disgusting”. I simply don’t understand why people are ignoring things like Jaadugar: A Witch in Mongolia or Daemons of the Shadow Realm to go straight to Chainsmoker Cat.
Comment on Anime Recommendations
Secret_Music@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 hours ago
Yeah I hate to say it but as an animation fan, I basically just stick to Western animation for this reason. As far as anime goes, it’s just Studio Ghibli and 5 different retellings of Ghost in the Shell for me. Spy x Family was pretty good too.
I tried one recently called Chainsmoker Cat, and within the first two minutes, an old man catches a glimpse of a young woman’s boob and rushes off to jack off over it.
And here’s the real problem for me. I thought I’d look up who was behind this series because if it was at least written by a young woman, maybe there would be more to it. But nope, it’s some old fucking man with a filmography full of animes about young women lounging around in their lingerie and shit.
I’m aware of what community I’m in, so maybe I’ll be attacked for this, but Japan has serious issues. I don’t think that the US comics industry at it’s most pervy was even close to as bad. And it’s not even ‘sexy’ or whatever, it’s straight up heavy breathing stalker incel shit.
Unboxious@ani.social 6 hours ago
NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
Because unless you are already interested enough to keep up with all of the new releases you end up throwing a dart at the board filled with recommendations you’ve heard were good and get slapped in the face by the fan service fairy before the end of the first episode of whatever you landed on. They also seem to be some of the more popular shows so they get shoved in your face as recommendations on streaming platforms etc. That’s the only reason I’ve heard of Chainsmoker Cat for example.
My daughter was getting into anime a few years ago and even going back to the classics it’s really hard to avoid the eye rolling booba jokes and upskirt shots. Maybe I’m just old now.
SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Literally every form of media has adult content in it. You need to be the parent who is aware of and monitors what your kids watch. You cant just blame a whole genre for not being 100% safe for you kids.
“My kid likes fantasy so I let them watch Game of Thrones and was shocked!! All this nudity in a show about dragons and knights??”
NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
Thats…not what I said lol. I was there for every one of the shows she checked out and recommended a few myself based on old memories. Sorry I apparently hit a nerve trying to add an anecdote to the conversation.
My point was frustration trying to filter fan service out of shows where it can just randomly pop up out of nowhere 12 episodes in with a surprise upskirt or beach episode in a cool giant fighting robot story or whatever.
EggInDisguise@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago Person: I don’t like having such a hard time curating my child’s media consumption.
You: YOU NEED TO CURATE YOUR CHILD’S MEDIS CONSUMPTION MORE
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 4 hours ago
My daughter was getting into anime a few years ago and even going back to the classics it's really hard to avoid the eye rolling booba jokes and upskirt shots. Maybe I'm just old now.
You are. That's fine, I am too.
I think sometimes people forget that many of these classic manga and anime are from the shonen genre, and are primarily targeting adolescent boys.
That's not to say that people of any age and gender can't watch and enjoy them, but just that they aren't necessarily made with everybody in mind. (Girls can and should enjoy shonen works, just like guys can and should enjoy shojo works.) But much like how many western cartoons were made targeting young kids and will contain jokes and stories that some adults may not always resonate with anymore, shonen manga and anime are made with literal teen boys in mind, and as a result they are mainly made to appeal to the humor, emotions and fantasies of teen boys.
Things like sex, low-brow human and power fantasies sell, in general, to many demographics. But I think that's especially true for teen boys who are in the swing of puberty and young adulthood and generally very stupid and horny.
I think Americans tend to be much more sensitive about sex while being more ambivalent to violence, while the Japanese tend are probably the opposite, culturally speaking. While there is obviously no shortage of "problematic" stuff in various manga and anime, and some creators who take things too far or glorify toxic behavior, I can't necessarily blame Japanese creators for knowing their audience and what will sell.
A classic like Dragon Ball comes to mind: there are plenty of sexual gags, panty shots, strange relationships, pervy dude, and so on. Sex is often played off for comedic value, but it'd be disingenuous to suggest that there isn't a mild horniness to it too. There's also a ton of violence and killing, and the whole thing is really one big power fantasy. We could debate whether or not any of that is a problem or whether it was all key to its success as a manga/anime, but regardless, Dragon Ball was a show that was targeting young men but has endured to the point of becoming a cultural icon, loved by people of all ages all over the world.
In other words, I think that we should expect shonen shows to be a little bit raunchy and immature at times, but some stuff manages to transcend that genre/demographic and rise above it that becoming truly iconic.
Unboxious@ani.social 5 hours ago
even going back to the classics
fwiw modern stuff is (on average) actually better about this stuff than the classics. There are still plenty of shows that have that stuff, but there are far more that don’t than there used to be.
Schmoo@slrpnk.net 4 hours ago
My recommendations for anime that don’t have any of the creepy sexualisation to the best of my memory:
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Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood (no creepy sexualisation stuff, but it does have gore and very heavy themes related to genocide, oppressive governments, body horror, general death and loss. It is very lighthearted and wholesome at times, creating a tonal whiplash effect that a lot of fans love it for)
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Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End (probably one of the most wholesome animes out there. There’s one scene where a character tries to gift another character a “potion that dissolves clothes,” but it’s treated as inappropriate by the other characters and it doesn’t end up getting used for creepy fanservice)
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Attack on Titan (like FMAB above it has gore and very heavy themes related to genocide etc. but unlike FMAB it’s almost never lighthearted. I honestly don’t recall anything related to sex even being mentioned in this one aside from characters telling each other raunchy jokes or alluding to relationships they have. The tone remains tense and serious for nearly the entire runtime)
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Cowboy Bebop (just an incredibly fun space western)
That’s what I can come up with off the top of my head, but there’s loads more I’m forgetting for sure.
- Secret_Music@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago
Thank you! I honestly don’t want to just hate on anime, it’s just that trying out animes blind can be a bit of a minefield. I like to go in blind with things and not have to research them first.
Gonna save this list and refer to it later. Thank you!
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Contramuffin@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Largely in the same boat. Anime as a whole has… Issues. It’s gotten bad enough that I suspect it’s going to face the media equivalent of the 1980’s video game crash somewhat soon.
But there’s some genuine diamonds hiding in all the shit, written by authors who clearly care about storytelling rather than imagining their own personal power fantasy.
I recommend the “modern fantasy trifecta”: Frieren, Dungeon Meshi, and Witch Hat Atelier. All of them have beautiful animation and have surprisingly nuanced and philosophical stories. And best of all, no sexualization.
SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Great call checking out the anime literally meant to be as disgusting as possible without doing any checking beforehand. And then judging everything based on that one show…
Yea, I’mma go watch BigMouth and then shit on Pantheon.
NOPper@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
Its being recommended on the front page of my family’s Netflix accounts, and the description is super generic. There’s a pretty good chance people just try a show without bothering to dig up all of the details about it first. We’re not all spending the day on anime forums. 🤷♂️
SailorFuzz@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
You can read a age rating, right? Netflix also shows what the content rating tags are too… so… you don’t have to go to any forum… you just have to be a parent? Crazy concept, I know.
tlekiteki@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
Okay, but does Ghost in the Shell deal with any fresh ideas? Or is it sexier Blade Runner?
Unboxious@ani.social 4 hours ago
The Ghost in the Shell has a lot of “what would life be like if people could connect their brains directly to the internet or put their brains in cyborg bodies”. It’s top-tier sci-fi, but keep in mind that it was written in the late 80s/early 90s so it has some ideas that were fresh then but somewhat less fresh now. There are a few different anime adaptations out there; my personal favorite is the one that’s airing right now on Amazon Prime, but Ghost in the Shell Stand-Alone Complex is also great. The currently-airing one does a really good job of preserving the sometimes-goofy, sometimes-serious tone of the original; Stand-Alone Complex is good if you just want it to be serious most of the time. The movies are also good, but IMHO not as good.
- Secret_Music@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago
Personally, seeing the closer to original version of events in the new series, has made me like the movies even less, especially the second movie. Also, the older I get, the less ‘philosophical’ they seem and the more full of it they seem.
Also doesn’t help that this latest series has had a lot of movie fans shitting on it, that all came out of the woodwork for this but apparently never noticed SAC or Arise or the fact that the movies are based on something else themselves.
It gave me flashbacks of the ‘lifelong’ X-Men fans showing up to complain about X-Men ’97 ruining their childhoods by going ‘woke’.
Unboxious@ani.social 3 hours ago
Yeah, some people have been really weird about how the new show is “ruining the original” as if Science Saru took the movies (not original; as you alluded to they’re based on the manga) and threw them into a lake or something when they made the new thing.
Meanwhile it’s been freakin’ amazing. By the time it finishes airing it might end up being my favorite TV show, ever.
- Secret_Music@piefed.blahaj.zone 4 hours ago
It’s not even that sexy. Motoko wears a dumb outfit on and off for about half of SAC season 1 but for the rest of the time she actually wears pants. And she clearly has a sex life that would scare the christians but even then, it’s not a main feature and mostly hinted at. In the ’95 movie, she has to get nude to use her optical camouflage but personally, the movie and its sequel are bottom of the list for me in terms of favourites and are the odd ones out.
I honestly haven’t watched Blade Runner but going by the short story Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, they’re nothing alike. Ghost in the Shell is about cyborgs with human brains, not robots mimicking humans. And it can get philosophical, it does also have AIs that might just have ghosts themselves, but it’s mostly action and political intrigue.
SAC 2045 is pretty dumbed down but the thing I love about the rest (especially the original SAC) is that it tends to have a complex storyline with a lot of different moving parts and subplots at the same time.
As a subtitles viewer, it’s a shit load of reading and something that I can rewatch multiple times and pick up more each time. Something that I don’t even get from Ghibli movies.
Luminous5481@anarchist.nexus 4 hours ago Does Ghost in the Shell deal with any fresh ideas
they were fresh when the story was first written. at this point, the line between cyberpunk and reality is getting depressingly thin. there is some sexy moments, but the story is one intended for mature audiences, so the sexuality is a normal part of life and isn’t the usual fanservice. oftentimes it’s part of the narrative of whatever is happening in the story as well (sex bots hacked and used to assassinate diplomats, the impact of physical relations in a trans-humanist society where gender no longer matters and is something rich people swap at will, etc.). it’s not often you get something that’s included just to be funny or titillate the audience, and I appreciate that.
- Luminous5481@anarchist.nexus 4 hours ago
Chainsmoker Cat
I skipped that one because I don’t like smoking, glad to see I didn’t miss anything worth watching
TastehWaffleZ@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Using Chainsmoker Cat as an example is like saying Jackass is proof that western movies are all immature trash, but your point as a whole is completely valid.
It’s easy to say “you just have to find the good anime, here’s an example” and then discounting the fact that it’s basically one out of 1,000.
The medium caters predominantly to young pre-teen guys and it shows when you look at the new releases every season. Chainsmoker Cats is supposed to be that turned up to 11, and if you’re already used to filtering everything toxic out then you can claim it’s a parody but it’s ignoring that fact that you’re holding up a polished turd while rolling around in a sewer. That said, that’s exactly where I am week after week.
Frieren, Mob Psycho, Mashle, Odd Taxi, Bocci The Rock are all incredible without the glaring problematic issues you brought up
Forgot about that. I watched it because I heard there was a non-binary character lol. It seems like it’s maybe meant for a school audience like Yu-Gi-Oh etc. but it was pretty fun.
I honestly had no idea it was meant to be ‘disgusting’ or whatever. It’s just something that I saw being recommended in my feed enough to want to check it out. Anime fans don’t tend to see this kind of thing as necessary to let people know about.
I almost watched Bleach (iirc) because people talk like it’s one of the greatest things of all time. Until I just happened to come across an article that mentioned it has rape. Something that none of the people who praise it ever mentioned.
I’d love if there was somewhere that listed animes that were ‘safe’ or whatever. Because going by recommendations and what everyone is talking about doesn’t work lol.
TastehWaffleZ@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Yep there’s a lot of problematic themes that are just hand waived away because it’s so common that it barely phases most watchers.
I don’t blame you for not realizing CSC is disgusting: it’s on Netflix and the summary is super mundane.
I wouldn’t start on Bleach unless you’re fine watching a ton of filler episodes, I heard the new season is better but I stopped a long time ago and don’t have the time or interest to power through everything. I’ve watched over 1,000 episodes of One Piece and it’s not something I’d recommend. Your best bet is to find someone who has similar views and get recommendations from them
valek879@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
Hey just jumping in here because it sucks that you got caught out with Chainsmoker Cat. Most of us that watch anime regularly have heard of this anime but not watched it for exactly the Jackass comparison. To me it actually sounds like watching an episode of Hoarders or some other poverty porn type thing.
Anyway, my wife and I have been watching Blue Period.
It’s about a highschooler deciding they want to be an artist and fighting too earn a spot in art college at Tokyo U. By my understanding Tokyo U is the prestigious University in Japan. It’s also a public school so many people just try to get in if they’re interested in higher learning. So like you’re basically competing with the entire population of Japanese high schoolers to get a spot, needless to say acceptance rates are low.
We’ve found it heartwarming and inspiring. Confusing at times but overall really good. They’re standard 24 minute episodes and it’s 1 season of like 10-13 episodes.
I’ll be honest though, I started watching it because some YouTuber said it had good and interesting trans representation. I’d say it does… However, it’s a Japanese lense and their culture is different to mine. I’m trans and I had to chew on how the trans character described themselves for a little bit to understand them better. It was a very culturally different framing of who they are but that’s what I want. If I wanted to see the world through only my eyes I’d never leave my house or listen to other people.
Anyway, that’s my current recommendation. I would almost never recommend any Shonen Jump anime to anyone over 25 who isn’t already interested. This is where Bleach fits in. I’m told newer Jump is better, look at DanDaDan but…well, DanDaDan uses sex as a central theme and again it cultures are different. I’m pretty sure it’d run afoul of many people’s sense of propriety.
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 4 hours ago
Ok, sure... But like, how is this different from any other kind of media? What's the ratio of good movies and TV shows to bad ones? What's the ratio of good music and video games to bad ones?
I would love to tell people to skip the generic stuff and latest flavor of the season anime for masterpieces and cult classics like Akira, Cowboy Bebop, Metropolis, Ping Pong the Animation, Redline, etc., but people will still opt to watch a show about a catgirl with a nicotine addiction and use that as their north star for understanding the medium. (Not seriously judging Chainsmoker Cat, because I haven't seen it and don't know much about it.)
The point being that there is no shortage of good, high-quality anime spanning 50+ years for people who care to seek it out. I've been watching anime for decades and I'm still seeing discovering classic shows and awesome movies that I haven't seen before. So yeah, go watch the good ones and skip the bad ones.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Much, much higher, if we’re talking about creepy tropes.
Plenty of TV and cinema is bad, but thats different than the specific creepiness we are discussing.
Additionally, popular, high profile, critically acclaimed anime seems to suffer from this too. Not universally, but when I tried to get into anime it was hard to avoid.
mrmaplebar@fedia.io 3 hours ago
To be honest, I think it's hard to have this discussion in the abstract, because a lot of it comes down to what that "specific level of creepy" means, both on the individual level and culturally. I think to what degree sex, violence, drug use, antisocial behavior, etc., are acceptable in media depends a lot on the context.
Many, or rather most, of the popular manga/anime series out there are shonen shows, primarily targeting the tastes and sensibilities of adolescent boys, so I think to some degree sexual content and violence are to be expected.
What's more, I think America is generally more sensitive to sexual content in media than Japan, while Japan is probably more sensitive to stuff like drug use... so there is a cultural aspect to it as well of course.