Are We All Too Cynical for Star Trek?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website⁩ to ⁨startrek@startrek.website⁩

https://plus.thebulwark.com/p/are-we-all-too-cynical-for-star-trek?

Came across this article, and it’s a very interesting take on how Star Trek has changed with the times, and how modern audiences seem to have a harder time trusting institutions or imagining Trek’s utopia.

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ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

This is not to say that the ’90s shows never delved into the complexity and nuance of this ethos—indeed, playing at the edges of their internal morality was how they derived much of their interest…Things are different in modern Trek.

If you have to include a variation of “sure, it was always like this, but it’s different now,” it’s time to go back to the drawing board with your thinkpiece.

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- The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’ve admittedly still only watched up through the 90s, but I’d definitely say that DS9 depicted a significantly more “morally gray” version of Starfleet than TOS or TNG.
  
  I think the point the author is making is that the extent to which this idea gets explored is reflective of our society’s growing mistrust of institutions IRL, rather than suggesting the theme has never been explored.
  
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  - ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
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- c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It wasn’t really always like this, in modern Trek they don’t have any ideals to aspire to, they just do what they have to. In DS9 you had Captain Sisko breaking his back trying to convince himself that letting Garak kill a Romulan diplomat to get them on the alpha quadrant’s side was worth it.
  
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  - ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    in modern Trek they don’t have any ideals to aspire to
    
    I disagree strongly with this, and can’t see how anyone could watch the shows and draw that conclusion.
    
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Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

modern audiences seem to have a harder time trusting institutions or imagining Trek’s utopia.

Paramount doesn’t even want to write about the Utopia anymore. All of the Picard series is about corruption, greed, power, and the Federation failing on all accounts. I hate them for it. Star Trek is supposed to be a glimpse into a hopeful future, not a reflection of our current problems but with phasers added.

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- VindictiveJudge@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s always been both, just with our current problems offloaded to aliens for scrutinization. That they’re no longer using aliens for commentary is the problem.
  
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  - Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    That’s true. It would be aliens, or a single scientist, or an admiral with a vendetta, but always the Federation sided with the objectively ethical viewpoint. They never showed absolute corruption or incompetence at the head of the Federation, and there were always more ethical people than unethical. The situations involving corruption, or fascism, or other similar themes never seemed hopeless. Perhaps because of the episodical nature of the previous shows. Everything would be neatly wrapped up by the end of 1 or 2 shows. In Picard the same struggles extend across 10 episodes, and it’s not fun. Not for me anyways.
    
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- porthos@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Paramount doesn’t even want to write about the Utopia anymore. All of the Picard series is about corruption, greed, power, and the Federation failing on all accounts. I hate them for it. Star Trek is supposed to be a glimpse into a hopeful future, not a reflection of our current problems but with phasers added.
  
  I think there are many valid criticisms of new trek but I really just don’t see this, old star trek had the same shit
  
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pizzaHate@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I loved the nearly boundless optimism of TNG. It inspired me to believe in a better future. Watching Picard was depressing because they decided Starfleet was an org where a little corruption at the top could take the whole thing down. The Starfleet that inspired me didn’t tolerate corruption at any level. Truth from an ensign was honored above a lie from an admiral and I liked it that way.

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- The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  This is why I love TNG so much. Even though TOS is the original that laid the groundwork for everything, TNG took that “boundless optimism” and ran with it. Watching TNG inspires me to continue to self-improve and encourage it in others.
  
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- Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I just wrote almost the same thing right before seeing your comment. Picard is trash, and I hate them for what they did to the Federation.
  
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Minotaur@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
A good article that I unfortunately can’t read much of due to a pay wall.

I think my main question would be: so I wasn’t around in the 1960s… but I can’t imagine the average Star Trek viewer was sitting around thinking “yep, that’s what real life is going to be like” in the future, even with a somewhat more optimistic culture.

I think Star Trek is more aspirational. It aspires to have this society where most everyone is very professional, very intelligent, very emotionally controlled and empathetic, etc. The newer seasons seem to miss some of this especially on that professionalism front. The kind of “British stiff upper lip” stereotype. It’s harder to imagine this utopia future without a significant change in how everyone acts and talks in their day to day lives, and modern Star Trek doesn’t really capture that latter part (imo). It makes it feel like society just kind of “stumbled into” a utopian society

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- hglman@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Modern Trek has no actual vision; it has nostalgia. Which is a terrible substitute it frankly is the opposite in many ways.
  
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  - Minotaur@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Modern Trek (by which I mean SNW) is very very close to being good to me. Something about the dialogue just throws me off though, along with the hour long episodes not really suiting the subgenre imo.
    
    I think people are genuinely trying to make SNW good, just kind of a lightning in a bottle scenario
    
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- ValueSubtracted@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  The newer seasons seem to miss some of this especially on that professionalism front. The kind of “British stiff upper lip” stereotype.
  
  This presumes that that sort of stoicism is particularly aspirational or healthy, and I don’t think there’s anything close to universal consensus on that one.
  
  I think something that gets missed in discussions of “utopia” is that it’s not real. Utopia is not attainable, because there is no universal definition of what that would look like. It exists as a dream of the future, but that’s all.
  
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  - Minotaur@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    At least to me, I find it pretty aspirational. But I can see how others would differ on that regard.
    
    Regardless, I appreciate that this is still seen through a few different lenses. The Klingon for example are like… notably emotional. A Klingon being quick to anger is one of their defining traits. Yet they’re still very “respectful” in their own way, with that code of honor being very key to their society.
    
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- The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Ah damn, sorry about the paywall. It let me hit “continue reading” on mobile, but I know sometimes these types of sites can be inconsistent.
  
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  - Minotaur@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s all good! I appreciate you posting, and I understand that websites like that need to get money from somewhere.
    
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Greenknight777@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Strange New Worlds definitely still has the “optimistic” viewpoint of old trek. I think that’s why it has been doing so well. I think the problem in other modern Trek shows like the first 2 seasons of Picard or all of Discovery was that there wasn’t enough of the hopeful optimism that made Trekkies fall in love with the franchise. There doesn’t need to be a universe ending plot calamity, exploration and interesting sci-fi plots that actually drive character development are enough.

Even “grittier” old trek like DS9 (my favourite trek show) had optimistic undertones of recognizing similarities between cultures, forging alliances, trying to be ethical in the face of war, and addressing social issues.

Even the underlying theme of Voyager was to maintain the ideals of the federation against all odds in the face if hopelessness.

I just hope studios see the success of Strange New Worlds and make more trek like it.

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hglman@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Fascinating

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Son_of_dad@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I think so. I don’t think the level of tolerance among humans in star trek will be reached by people before we go extinct.

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- 1simpletailer@startrek.website ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Pretty much. Don’t get me wrong I love Star Trek, but at this point The Expanse looks optimistic compared to the future humanity is recklessly careening towards.
  
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  - Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    We’re unlikely to colonate mars before we go extinct.
    
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survivalmachine@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Considering the article is on Substack, a proud Nazi-supporting site, I would imagine it’s readers don’t appreciate Star Trek much at all.

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Dagwood222@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The biggest change in America between TOS and TNG was Watergate. Even if people thought that Johnson was wrong to go into Vietnam, they mostly believed that the government was trying to do the right thing.

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