This is referencing Philip Wadler’s 1989 paper “Theorems for Free”, which is fairly well known in the Haskell community: home.ttic.edu/~dreyer/course/papers/wadler.pdf
We did this to ourselves
Submitted 1 year ago by mikidep@lemmy.world to programmer_humor@programming.dev
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/77b6b5a5-f139-43b9-9650-6938d8195ee1.jpeg
Comments
kronicmage@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
spicyemu@programming.dev 1 year ago
That looks like something I’ve seen somewhere and didn’t understand.
PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I need an explainer on this one
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 year ago
🎵 Millions of theorems,
Theorems for free.
Millions of theorems,
Theorems for me, look out! 🎵
jasondj@ttrpg.network 1 year ago
I’m sorry, I’m only a novice Python guy. Know enough to get two RESTful APIs to talk to each other and do some network automation or rudimentary Ansible plugins.
What’s wrong with
if isinstance(x, str):
?Knusper@feddit.de 1 year ago
Apparently, “Theorems for free!” is a paper that talks about an extensive ability to reason about parts of programs, if you follow some rather basic rules.
However, lots of popular programming languages throw this ability out the window, because they do not want to enforce those basic rules.
Most languages, for example, allow for rather uncontrolled side effects and to be able to reason as a programmer, you have to make the assumption that no one else abused side effects.The
instanceof
is rather referring to dynamic typing, though, as e.g. employed by Python and JS, which makes it difficult to make any assumptions at all.So, in statically typed languages, when you’re implementing a function, you can declare that a given parameter is a number or a string etc. and the compiler will enforce that for you. In dynamically typed languages, you have to assume that anyone calling your function is using it correctly, which is a difficult assumption to make after a refactoring in a larger codebase.
All in all, such different levels of rigorosity can be fine, but the larger your codebase grows, the more you do want such rules to be enforced, so you can just ignore the rest of the codebase.
apprehentice@lemmy.enchanted.social 1 year ago
Okay, but what’s a theoren?
Pok@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It may or may not be a string.
kronicmage@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
This is referencing Philip Wadler’s 1989 paper “Theorems for Free”, which is fairly well known in the Haskell community: home.ttic.edu/~dreyer/course/papers/wadler.pdf
mikidep@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Op here back from the dead. This is in fact not a stab at dynamically typed languages, or at least not only: statically typed languages such as Java also support this kind of construct. In fact, one could develop a technically type safe programming language where an
instanceof
construct has sound semantics.What
instanceof
breaks is something called polymorphic parametricity, i.e. the fact that generic functions don’t know anything specific about the types they are generic over. This is the fundamental condition for what in the community is dubbed “theorems for free”, that is, naturality of generic functions between generic types.
ezchili@iusearchlinux.fyi 1 year ago
What
tatterdemalion@programming.dev 1 year ago
It’s making fun of dynamic languages because rather than letting the compiler prove theorems about statically typed code, they… don’t.
DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Dynamic languages were invented by runtime error companies to sell more runtime errors.
deegeese@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Turns out getting working code is a lot cheaper and more useful than formally proven code.
ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What
xmunk@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I may just be an old country
lawyerPHP developer… but don’t most dynamic languages also support static type checking and general analysis at this point?tzrlk@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Though even statically-typed languages can need to check types sometimes; parsing runtime data for instance. I can see how you’d do that with pure statics, but it’d just be shifting the work (e.g.
if token == QUOTE: proc.call(read_str(bytes, len))
). It’d be cool to see a counter example that isn’t unreadable gibberish, however.