[deleted]
Parliament will debate petition: Make lying in the House of Commons a criminal offence - 23rd October 2023
Submitted 1 year ago by bugsmith@programming.dev to unitedkingdom@feddit.uk
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/576886
Comments
AcesFullOfKings@lemmy.world 1 year ago
JoBo@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Voters don’t get to choose who is on the ballot paper. Billionaires do.
echodot@feddit.uk 1 year ago
The people who are on the ballot paper are decided by the party via whatever mechanism they wish to use.
If you want to change vote for a party that has its members decide who’s on the ballot.
echodot@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Oh I wonder how this will come out. Gosh I’m biting my nails.
mannycalavera@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Great idea. Won’t happen though. The ministerial code already has something about this. The get out jail free card (literally) is that you have to prove intent of lying. Knowingly lied. That the key.
You saw how hard it was to get BoJo held to account. Imagine that shit show year round. Opposition will claim MP lied. MP will deny. “I didn’t knowningly lie”. “Yea you did”. And so on and so forth.
The principle is sound. But I can’t help thinking this is like a wrecking ammendment designed so that the sitting government (Tories in this case) say no because it will be deliberately unworkable and then for the opposition parties to go, “oh my days the Tories literally want to lie in parliament boo and hissssssss!!!”.
Would love to see this done properly via independent parliament HR. The stress is on independent and with proper powers and fact checking.
Syldon@feddit.uk 1 year ago
You miss a very pertinent point that they must correct the record at the earliest possible time. The ministerial code is also under the discretion of the PM of the day, so will only be put to a committee for discussion if he deems it necessary. This falls short when the PM himself is habitually breaking the code. Sunak as well as his ministers are again following suite by making up figures for the dispatch box, and failing to correct the record when it is pointed out.
mannycalavera@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Yeah that’s all good and everything. But when would they correct the record? Could they continue to delay by saying “well at the time I said what I said because I believed it to be the truth!”.
That’s basically what BoJo said for two years.
krowmada@lemmy.world 1 year ago
can’t believe it’s not already
tgcp@lemmy.world 1 year ago
[deleted]mackwinston@feddit.uk 1 year ago
The courts can already do this - perjury is already a criminal offence, and people have been charged and convicted of this. The court case when someone is accused of perjury will explore things like “And what if they interpreted something incorrectly but believed they were telling the truth”. The courts will decide if the evidence shows if someone is lying, just as they do with perjury.
The courts already know the difference between saying something misleading because you were simply wrong (that’s not lying, that’s just being wrong), and saying something misleading with the intent to mislead (lying).
lemonflavoured@kbin.social 1 year ago
This is a daft idea, it would basically stop any politican from saying anything or making any policy announcements. The people promoting this will be annoyed when MPs treat this deabate as a joke, but it's a completely unrealistic proposal.
echodot@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Yes it’s completely unrealistic to tell the truth.
wewbull@feddit.uk 1 year ago
The key word is “knowingly”. Making a statement that is your best understanding of the situation but doesn’t turn out to be true in the fullness of time is very different to lying.
lemonflavoured@kbin.social 1 year ago
But even in that situation they would be accused of lying, so it would have to be investigated. It would massively chill speech.
abrasiveteapot@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
would basically stop any politician from saying anything
So you’re saying that it is impossible for a politician to speak without lying ?
I don’t care who you normally vote for, would you mind sitting the next election out ? Preferably all the ones after that too.
lemonflavoured@kbin.social 1 year ago
No, but I'm saying that if you make it illegal "lie" then they will say very little in case they are accused of lying.
andresil@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yes, I expect much change in the house of commons as a result if this debate… /s
bugsmith@programming.dev 1 year ago
I don’t think you’re /s is necessary. Especially on a UK community where sarcasm is expected by default :)
Flyberius@hexbear.net 1 year ago
Lol. This ought to be interesting
franglais@lemm.ee 1 year ago
No,it was a petition from 2021,it was debated, and the government response was that they have no intention of introducing legislation of this kind.
JoBo@feddit.uk 1 year ago
It was not debated in 2021. It will be debated in October 2023.
The govt response in 2021 was because it reached the lower threshold (10,000?) for a response. Now it’s over the 100,000 required for a debate.
bugsmith@programming.dev 1 year ago
My understanding is that it was responded to, but not debated.
david@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Well it’s not a proposed bill and they’ll do some hand wringing and say some platitudes but nothing will come of it because the government has other priorities.
barontomatoes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It already is… in a way.
It is against the rules of both houses to knowingly mislead the house, and Parliament is free to punish its members up to and including imprisoning them (until dissolution, anyway).
Tweak@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Well that’s the point of this, if they make it a crime then they shouldn’t be able to get away with doing it.
shiveyarbles@beehaw.org 1 year ago
They’re professional liars… They won’t be able to speak. I’m actually ok with that.
butterflyattack@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is one of those things that seems so obvious. I wonder if many people already believe it’s an offense.
Of course, it’ll never happen. How many of those fuckers are likely to vote to be criminally penalised for their dishonesty? Not a lot, I’m thinking. Lying is how they make their money and consolidate their power. Wankers. It should be a criminal offense - the fact that they are allowed to lie without penalty undermines democracy. How are they supposed to make an informed and democratic vote if they’re doing so based on mendacious info?
Also, I could be wrong about this but I have the idea in my head that the house is legally a court. And under certain circumstances, lying to a court is already criminal. So maybe this is already illegal? I’m probably wrong there, the people behind this petition surely know more than me.
Beanedwizard@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But there would be nobody left?
RobotToaster@infosec.pub 1 year ago
They’d all be in prison if that was law.
Rocketpoweredgorilla@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Don’t get my hopes up like that.