Why are eugenics bad seen?

Comments

• AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Without even looking at the human issues, the underlying idea that you can improve a species by removing its biological diversity in favor of the “best” variant is catastrophically wrong.

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  • breb@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Only for extreme cases. People who suffer more than they enjoy life.

    Without even looking at the human issues
    In fact im curious many people say me thinks like this, i do this from an ethical point of view. Many people suffer through their life constantly bc of bad genes. If there were born without them the world would be better

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    • AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      For one thing, the idea that there are “bad” genes stems from the outdated idea that there’s a one-to-one correspondence between genes and physical traits—but the reality is that most genes govern hundreds or thousands of traits, and most traits depend on similar numbers of genes. So bad traits usually result from the wrong combination of genes that are not bad in themselves—take sickle-cell anemia, which results from the wrong combination of genes that by themselves offer malaria resistance. (Most cases are far more convoluted than that.) If you remove the genes that cause the “bad” traits, you’re also removing the good traits they cause in other contexts.

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• anarchosparky@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Lots of reasons.

  • At some point a human decides who gets to be born and how, which has been abused almost every single time, usually against minorities

  • Our understanding of human biology is constantly changing. If we suddenly stopped "allowing" neurodivergent kids to be born, half this site wouldn't exist

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  • breb@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Yes, but at the same time this neurodivergent people, same as disabled people don't have a minimun quality of life...
    It's making someone born so that he can be a slave of people who have good life and suffer

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    • adespoton@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      As a neurodivergent person, let me just say that I have a great life. Why should you, or anyone else, get to make uninformed decisions about who gets to live based on inaccurate information?

      Also, just look at bananas to see where eugenics ends up. Crops devastatingly vulnerable to disease, ans companies like Chiquita creating slaves of entire nations that manage them. It’s not hard to extend this wrt humans.

      But really, the main reason is how tightly linked eugenics programs through history have been linked to fascism.

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    • anarchosparky@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Who the fuck are you to tell me i don't have a minimum quality of life? Mfer I've got a family, business, home, friends.

      THIS is the exact problem.

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    • PM_ME_VINTAGE_30S@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I’m autistic, currently pursuing a PhD in one of my special interests. I am perfectly content with being autistic. Tl;dr; we need inclusion like neurotypical people already get from systems designed in their image, not elimination.

      I needed some services to get to where I’m at…but even neurotypical people need services, at a bare minimum diaper changes and feeding, but practically a lot more things like education, parenting, social networks, shelter, and a healthy environment.

      Really, what autistic people need in general is to be included in the wider world, with all of the prerequisites and consequences it entails. Eugenics is, being extremely charitable, an extremely poor attempt at inclusivity by restricting humanity to the types of people the system is already designed to include. In practice, eugenics is simply a way for the in-group to eliminate an inconvenient out-group, and anyone who says otherwise is either wrong or lying to you.

      Instead of changing and abolishing people, who in my view have intrinsic worth, we should change and abolish systems, which generically have no intrinsic worth. And in many, many cases, the currently existing systems are worse than worthless even for most neurotypical people, for example racism, capitalism, sexism, LGBT-phobia, nationalism, statism, ableism etc., even before neurodivergence is factored in!

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    • AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Fuck you. Sincerely. As an autistic person.

      I don’t need someone to kill me before I’m born, what ri need is people that accept that I need accomodations different than the ones neuromilds need.

      Fucking hell… You live in a world that is full of accomodations for neuromilds, without which, you’d live in hell. And instead of recognising how easy it is for you thanks to those accorodations, you want to purge us?

      Damn how I wish you lived through the life of one of us just for one day…

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• db2@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  You want to discuss mass murdering people bases on subjective bullshit and your own personal biases… politely.

  Fuck outta here.

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  • breb@piefed.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    you see? im saying to debate this with respect
    Anyway, it's not murdering but selecting the good genes

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    • Cevilia@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      What exactly do you propose we do with the people who don’t have “good genes”?

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• zeropointone@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I can recommend the movie Gattaca.

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  • pressedhams@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    How else would we get 12 fingered pianists?

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    • zeropointone@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Do we need twelve-fingered pianists?

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• BertramDitore@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  You’re seem pretty confident that eugenics would improve peoples’ lives, but why is that?

  Eugenics has been used, many times, to justify the mass murder or mass sterilization of entire populations, based on unproven racism and hatred towards the Other, be it people with cognitive differences from the “norm,” or all Jews, or gay people, etc. Really whoever the “in” group doesn’t like.

  Eugenicists think anyone that is Other or not in the shape of their ideal human, doesn’t deserve to live. But people who don’t think, act, or look like you still live fulfilling lives, so who gives eugenicists the right to decide who gets to live and who doesn’t? What makes their “ideal pure human” pure and ideal? The answer is usually white and Christian, which exposes the whole thing as absurd.

  I’m sure the original post will get deleted, because these kinds of questions don’t usually last long after they’ve been answered, but there you go, I choose to believe you actually wanted a genuine answer.

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• devolution@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Your grammar is poor and it makes you look like an idiot. Therefore you should be forcefully sterilized.

  See how stupid that sounds? Same with eugenics.

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  • breb@piefed.social ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Your grammar is poor and it makes you look like an idiot

    im not native
    I don't consider grammar a reason to sterilize, but who knows maybe it's a symptom of some mental defect

    you should be forcefully sterilized

    Yes i think so and i will never have sons even if i had the opportunity. My sons would go through the same nightmare that i am or even worse

    See how stupid that sounds?

    It doesn't sound stupid

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    • devolution@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Guy, the whole point is that eugenics is baseless because who decides who should be sterilized doesn’t stop with bad genes or disabilities. It’s always decided on what out group doesn’t align with the current in group. When you open the door to forced sterilization on one group, it leads to the continuation of that practice on more groups.

      The decider never feels they are defective.

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• leraje@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It would improve the society

  No. It would create a society in which the powerful have decided which genes are the ones they like when in reality, its diversity and complexity that is what's 'best' for humans.

  and people quality of life

  That is not how eugenics works.

  I don't understand why is it bad

  Then take a biodiversity and ethics class.

  Just to Godwin the thread, eugenics is the province of nazi's and other totalitarian regimes. Even though it could never work in the way they want, all anyone who advocates eugenics really wants is to eradicate other people different than them.

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• pressedhams@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  God this asshat again? Do you just keep reposting this nonsense when it gets deleted?

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  • okwhateverdude@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    ethnofascist gonna ethnofascist. What’s hilarious is the audacity to think they wouldn’t be included in the eugenic culling because of how fucking stupid they are.

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    • AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Ah but see? They have “the good genes” so of course they won’t be culled. Not like “neurodivergents” or “disabled”. We should cull those because “they won’t get a girlfriend”.

      This smells of incel, like a fuckton.

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• theywilleatthestars@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I don’t think the level of control over people’s personal lives and bodies that eugenics would require would actually be an improvement.

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• Deflated0ne@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  It is the peak of arrogance to think that we can improve on millions of years of evolution without any adverse effects.

  And that’s ignoring all the blatant evil. Which is most of the issue.

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• dinckelman@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • breb@piefed.social ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It's not

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• HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Eugenics becomes a way to justify less fair societies for reasons that don’t fully meet scientific rigor.

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• givesomefucks@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Because it’s almost always just done on a racial bias and not something voluntary targeted at eliminating genetic diseases.

  Even then, a lot of that stuff has a racial lean. Things like Sickle cell may be a huge advantage in places with malaria, but a negative everywhere else.

  There’s 100% some generic issues with no positive tradeoffs, but any system that would incentives them from not reproducing and passing on those genes would just be too open to corruption.

  The risk/reward just isn’t worth it

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