Proton freezes Swiss investment over surveillance fears

Comments

• Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  They need to fire their CEO and get an executive suite that can develop good products and not just copy Google while adding keywords related to “privacy” and “freedoms” in their marketing copytext.

  That’s the exact same thing as Google.

  As say this as long time Proton user and subscriber.

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  • the_swagmaster@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Imo, having Proton just copy Google but actually be private is exactly what I want. Of course, if they stray away from privacy then there will be issues. I also feel like they are making good stuff. As a subscriber myself I don’t have many issues with their offering other than the stuff they don’t provide but Google does.

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    • disco@lemdro.id [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      They’ll never do it. They’ve proven they have no integrity and your data is too valuable.

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    • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I don’t believe they will be able to compete with Google/OpenAI in a direct battle by having a 1:1 LLM product copy but with privacy. The costs are likely too high for an organisation like Proton and their LLM is likely to have significantly subpar output.

      Don’t get me wrong, I am all for a private, cloud LLM, but I would rather they came up with novel usbaility features, a better front-end for evaluating sources (and faster identification of errors and hallucinations) and so on.

      I am not seeing any of that.

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  • douglasg14b@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I mean… Why not?

    I want Gmail without Google. Protonmail sells that to me, seems like a win/win.

    Same for other services.

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    • Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I don’t think they can make a direct competitor. An LLM is expensive to run and getting a good LLM model requires lots of spend.

      I like the idea of a private cloud LLM, but based on my experience with Mistral (an EU based LLM service), it is noticeably less useful than ChatGPT and especially Gemini for work use cases.

      Bases on some basic test prompts (related to finding sources and documents related to specific parts of government budgets in different countries all around the world), Lumo did not perform well. Only some general suggestions for sources were provided.

      It would be great to see Lumo improve, but I have my doubts.

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    • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Lucky, they sell a way better solution than Gmail. Even changing the few accounts that used my Gmail caused 25% of the mails to not ever be received by Gmail.

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  • shaggyb@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Except that’s exactly what we want. Google services that respect privacy and aren’t full of ad cancer.

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• rhvg@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Proton AI never makes sense in the first place.

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  • ohshit604@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Not a single soul asked for it

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    • Dojan@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      This is how I feel. I’m not really okay with the money I pay getting used to develop ML and crypto BS.

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  • darkangelazuarl@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Developing more slop AI but still no Linux drive client.

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• Eyekaytee@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  For those who didn’t read the article

  “If the proposals pass, Proton’s services in Switzerland would be less private than Google’s,” Mr Yen told Le Temps. Frustrated by the lack of assurances from Beat Jans, the federal councillor overseeing the matter, Proton has opted to halt Swiss investments and shift its infrastructure plans abroad. **Its artificial-intelligence data centres, deemed especially sensitive, will be located in Germany and Norway and involve investing CHF 100 million. **

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  • Darth_Lemmy@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    how do I check what this said?

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    • biggerbogboy@sh.itjust.works ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Ctrl+f

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• Bubbey@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Good, fuck the swiss if they try to kill privacy, it was the only reason they got so much investment from the west.

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• UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  People here be acting like no one uses chatbots.

  I like Lumo, be it only because I can use it instead of US or Chinese LLMs. Hope they help drive european AI development. And I’m quite sure Proton thought about their 1 billion investment a bit before announcing it.

  You can refuse to use LLMs, but I doubt the use of AI will ever decrease again.

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  • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Mistral AI is another EU alternative for now. There is talk into it being sold, but for now it is still from Europe.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      How good is Mistral compared to say chatgpt?

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    • progandy@feddit.org ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Still running in the datacenters of one of the three big us cloud providers.

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    • UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I think Lumo is based on Mistral models

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  • network_switch@lemmy.ml ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It just needs a dark theme. Work computer is powerful enough that I can run local models and use it occasionally. A cloud one that’s just using similar open models as what you can easily download is fine to me.

    Proton does have aot of work to do understandable to people’s annoyance with them. Lack of Linux Drive application but they’ve released alpha/beta API for Drive. Drive performance isn’t great yet. The Docs feature is pretty barebones for now. Calendar is too simple for power users. Regardless for now they’re the closest privacy centric replacement for Google services

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• Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Fair enough. The proposed VÜPF changes suck balls.

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• lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Yeah Russia’s the only one who gets Proton data

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  • independantiste@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    such a large statement with such little evidence

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    • y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Sounds like something a RUSSIAN would say /s

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  • 9point6@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Wrong bogeyman here, the more worrying problem is the CEO endorsing the US republicans, seemingly (and charitably) due to the ostensibly pro-privacy policy position, ignoring all the other policy advocation attached to endorsing them or their track record of doublespeak particularly around things like privacy.

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    • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Proton is owned by an actual non-profit (not one of those fake once you have in the US) and Andy is only 1/3rd of it so he cannot really do much alone, plus he still needs to follow the objective for the non-profit otherwise he can be held personally responsible.

      Personally, I live in a country where you can vote for hundreds of politicians, and we have multiple parties ruling the country and I don’t believe that agreeing with one statement is enduring anybody.

      Still, Andy Yen is an idiot and Proton needs some extra governance structure to keep him in check (firing him is going to be a hard one since he still owns shares IIRC). Believe what you want and choose to use Proton or not, but it doesn’t help the cause for the people to be more critical without giving context.

      This was said by Andy directly: miro.medium.com/…/1*9_3JV1BBIZjAYkoTDQzOlg.png This was said by Andy through Proton: archive.ph/quYyb And this was his later comment from his own account: miro.medium.com/…/1*Pz-ct2LGRpxWdKsHSZu1Rg.png

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    • homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Yeah I’m not buying any excuses. One supports trump, one gets the fuck out.

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    • ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That was a verrry disappointing and tone deaf comment from him, yeah. He could have said that neither party is committed to Proton’s values and been done with it, instead he kissed the ring.

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    • lIlIlIlIlIlIl@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      That’s what I said - Russia, GOP… no difference

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  • hanke@feddit.nu ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Would you mind elaborating?

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  • RedPandaRaider@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    No so does France. Proton helped convict a French environmental activist by providing the courts full access to their private proton account.

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    • Vinstaal0@feddit.nl ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Proton nor Tuta nor anybody else is above the law, you can read independant reports on the matter scroll.in/…/why-a-court-ban-on-encrypted-email-se… or Proton’s own post about it proton.me/blog/climate-activist-arrest

      But I don’t believe that their entire account was shared with the police, but if that actually did happen and you have a proper source for it I gotta think to move my mail after all, so could you please share with the class where you read this?

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